22mm / 1" socket ?

[realstokebloke]

I have a Salamander S flange to fit onto my HWC (mainly as i got a Salamander pump & so then, they can't moan if something goes base over apex).

So i took the vent pipe off the top, ready to screw on the female / female brass socket (as supplied) but it was obviously way too tight from the off & i was in danger of stripping the thread, so i put it all back to investigate.

Very glad i did, as it seems i have a Gledhill (?) HWC - which are the 'only' ones (i'm told) to use 22mm on the male out at the top - the rest of the world uses 1" (i'm told).

So...my Q is: has anyone ever come across a similar socket female / female (about 35mm deep) that has the corresponding threads: 22mm @ the base & 1" @ the top?

(And no, i really don't fancy plan B - replacing the cylinder).

Failing one of those, i understand all top entry flanges are 1", so would my only solution be to get an Essex boss instead?

Sure it's something someone has come across before.

Many thanks.

 

[quality]

Not really sure what you are trying to achieve but many threads from many countries use and manufacture fittings with different thread sizes. I have come across 7/8 bsp and 1" bsp on the same fitting from the same merchant on the same order.

 

[realstokebloke]

Not really sure what you are trying to achieve but many threads from many countries use and manufacture fittings with different thread sizes. I have come across 7/8 bsp and 1" bsp on the same fitting from the same merchant on the same order.

Yes, i'm beginning to understand the dark & merky world of many different threads. 🙂

But anyway, i'll try & clarify:

(As I understand it) all top entry HWC shower flanges have 1" threads 'in'.

Most HWCs have 1" male threads 'out'. All good so far. But...

When i tried fitting same, I have (apparently) a Gledhill HWC with a 22mm male thread at the top, so the 1" / 1" female socket you get with the top entry flange won't screw down on the 22mm male of the HWC.

So my Q was / is:

has anyone solved this (by finding a 22mm / 1" female / female socket) or have i now got an Essex (side entry) flange as my only option?

(Hope that's clearer.)

 

[SafeGasInstall]

gledhil has side outlet for the hw , you should you use top outlet for vent and side one for hot water

 

[realstokebloke]

I actually know that thanks, as i live near them & went to see them & ask today if they did such a socket (as their 22mm outs seem to be at odds with the rest of the world i gather).

They don't.

But mine hasn't a side outlet sorry. Must be an older one?

It (the HWC) has lost all branding (as far as i can see anyway) so my assumption that it is a Gledhil is via the merchants that id'd the problem and said (as far as they knew) only Gledhil do the 22mm 'out'.

Might be ano make but either way, that's still the problem - it has a 22mm outlet at the top and no sign of ano one on the side. 🙁

 

[quality]

How old is the cylinder ? assumption whats one of them lol a pic may help

 

[realstokebloke]

How old is the cylinder ? assumption whats one of them lol a pic may help

It must be circa 17 yrs old (put in 'new') when built.

It is copper not stainless.

I will try & get a piccy but really, if you thought of a bog standard HWC (the only with foam sprayed on), it looks like one of them (if you see what i mean).

I also assumed this would be a doddle 🙂

Mmm...

 

[stevetheplumber]

your not going to get a flange into a 3/4 tapping just fit the essex flange and done with You need the right one that allows the tube to go through the flange into the cylinder I Think the number is in the salamander instructions which you must follow exactly if you want a warranty take note they say there a ten 10 difference from normal stat position to the top of the cylinder so either set stat low or move it higher on the cylinder

 

[SafeGasInstall]

if its that old must as well consider to fit new one as old one will be full of limescale

 

[realstokebloke]

your not going to get a flange into a 3/4 tapping just fit the essex flange and done with You need the right one that allows the tube to go through the flange into the cylinder I Think the number is in the salamander instructions which you must follow exactly if you want a warranty take note they say there a ten 10 difference from normal stat position to the top of the cylinder so either set stat low or move it higher on the cylinder

I'm thinking that way too, thanks.

Not sure what the ten 10 thing you metion is though, sorry?

I have the MI's & it's pretty vague about "essex fanges" (not a specific one but i can phone & ask them.

I also thought they had to go as high up as possible anyway on the wall?

 

[realstokebloke]

if its that old must as well consider to fit new one as old one will be full of limescale

I don't doubt it - yet, sadly that would have to be in next year's budget.

And anyway, i reckon the boiler would go first & therefore so would the HWC anyway, so thoughts were to get this running & see how we go i guess, thanks.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Bite the bullet and get a stainless steel cylinder fitted. Most come with a dedicated shower tapping. you'll probably knacker the old cylinder anyway.

 

[realstokebloke]

Bite the bullet and get a stainless steel cylinder fitted. Most come with a dedicated shower tapping. you'll probably knacker the old cylinder anyway.

Pretty obvious really, as answered above: budget & boiler (same age) will go at some point therefore why waste money on a new cylinder when it might soone be redundant.

 

[Mike Jackson]

If the cylinder is going to be redundant then so is the shower pump that you're worried about knackering by plumbing in incorrectly.

 

[realstokebloke]

If the cylinder is going to be redundant then so is the shower pump that you're worried about knackering by plumbing in incorrectly. The saga of your attempts at plumbing make a perfect illustration of why it's best to get a professional in.

So your logic is to plumb it in incorrectly then?

And yes, of course I realise the pump would also be redundant but surely it is better to have it installed correctly in the meatime and not hasten its demise?

And surely you can follow the logic of: 1. not replacing a cylinder (or other major 'parts') unless you have to & ii. keeping (and having to keep) costs down?

Or do all your customers just give you carte blanche to fit whatever you want regardless of material costs & your time?

And, yes, obviously i would get a pro in if money was no object.

Not the case sorry.

Hence why I and people like me come on here and, some other pros are generous enough to give freely of their experience.

And so while i applaud & respect your banging the drum for the profession, in this case, I wouldn't have got a pro in anyway, so your comment itself is redundant & I don't actually see that i should be berrated for trying and having a go and learning something along the way.

And if your approach is genuinely "my way or the highway - regardless of cost" - then I'm quite sure your comments are a perfect illustration why some pros don't get some jobs.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

very interesting post

 

[realstokebloke]

very interesting post

In a good or a bad way? 🙂

Just defending my corner - no offence to the profession intented or meant but some people try & belittle you for asking, which is just not on.

So why have such a section on the forum?

 

[Mike Jackson]

The problem is you have gone at the job piecemeal. Fit a bit, find a problem, resolve that problem find another one. You are going about the whole thing back to front.

Before doing the fancy bathrooms you should have looked at your basic plumbing system and worked out if it was up to the job.

My customers don't give me carte blanche to fit whatever I want regardless of cost but they listen to my advice on whether a solution is workable. I can then work out a cost to complete the job correctly. If this is beyond their budget it mat be possible to revise the job to make some cost savings or they decide not to go ahead until they can afford to have the job done to the specification that they want.

I give freely of my experience and my experience of the way you are approaching your bathroom install is that you need to sit down a look at the bigger picture and decide what you want to do in the future with your plumbing system to minimise wastage.

My experience of 17 year old cylinders is that I avoid working on them unless essential because they are liable to leak when you disturb them.

 

[BLOD]

Is the pump new? If so maybe you can exchange it for a Stuart Turner one, they recommend taking the hot feed to the pump from the horizontal pipework coming from the top of the cylinder.

 

[realstokebloke]

Is the pump new? If so maybe you can exchange it for a Stuart Turner one, they recommend taking the hot feed to the pump from the horizontal pipework coming from the top of the cylinder.

Not brand spanking Blod - as was fitted & taken out as their vented boiler went & they went combi (see above).

So sadly not.

I know, it's very confusing - i didn;t know Stuart Turner spec'd it off the vent pipe (& they are thought to be the dog's doo-dahs i now discover). Aqualiser say that also. But Salamander definitely do not (i have double checked given the problems on the top flange).

They do seem to do it a little differently & they even spec a no stop Essex (like a side dip tube) which now looks like the way to go. Still it's therir MI's.

 

[realstokebloke]

The problem is you have gone at the job piecemeal. Fit a bit, find a problem, resolve that problem find another one. You are going about the whole thing back to front.

Before doing the fancy bathrooms you should have looked at your basic plumbing system and worked out if it was up to the job.

My customers don't give me carte blanche to fit whatever I want regardless of cost but they listen to my advice on whether a solution is workable. I can then work out a cost to complete the job correctly. If this is beyond their budget it mat be possible to revise the job to make some cost savings or they decide not to go ahead until they can afford to have the job done to the specification that they want.

I give freely of my experience and my experience of the way you are approaching your bathroom install is that you need to sit down a look at the bigger picture and decide what you want to do in the future with your plumbing system to minimise wastage.

My experience of 17 year old cylinders is that I avoid working on them unless essential because they are liable to leak when you disturb them.

Fair enough & i respect your experience & knowledge i honestly do.

But sometimes, it's just not "bigger picture" sceanrio and a:

"we are going to plan a bathroom re-fit, with 3 months to plan it & think it through & here's a hefty budget to boot - so now please tell us what you think we should spend Mr Pipes".

Sometimes, something goes belly up in a bathroom (in my case a sink) and one thing leads to ano...

So yes, I have done it piece meal and (as i am discovering) it all knocks on and it has taken longer than i ever expected.

But... i know a hoot of a lot more about it all now (and even enough to know to plan it out better and consult the pro's earlier if that makes you feel better) and I am no longer completely useless at the basics. In fact i am quite chuffed with what i have done (despite however much you may scoff at an 'amateur').

And i won't even bother to tell you what i have learned about tiling and lighting on the same project... 🙂

Nevertheless, this will be finished largely as expected, will work fine and look great - and if we change the basic heating / plumbing configuration (go combi etc), so be it - we'll change the system, sell the pump but we'll have a stonking good shower in the meantime.

So yes, I am old enough & ugly enough to admit, that of course you are not wrong - but given i did get embroiled in a big (for me) job with (yes, i admit it also) too little experience and understandably came here seeking some help / advice, i don't think it fair / approriate or even that mature to just play the proverbial stuck record "should have hired a pro (& spend a small fortune)" - particularly one that i don't have budgetted currently.

Where does that get anyone?

You look arrogant and i / we (on be behalf of the mere mortals asking for some help) just get the bleeding obvious thrown back at us.

So if i am / we are in the wrong place - populated only by the plumbing elite just sniggering at the great unwashed (like me with no shower currently 🙂 ) overcoming simple (to you) problems, then somebody please tell me.

I did think it was a place to seek advice and a place where people with it would share same without a grudge.

Anyway, truce (at my end anyway), i now think you are the best plumber in the world - apart, that is, from Trevor - who is fitting my Essex no stop Saturday. 🙂

Simple really.

In the meantime thanks for your help.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Hopefully you've learned a bit about the proper way of planning a job in the process. There are also ways of minimising the cost of having a professional in to do the work.

I've just completed a large job where to save money the customer did a lot of the basic labouring like lifting floor boards etc. He saved himself the cost of 2 days labour on the job.

I've just started another which involves renovating two bathrooms ' fitting an unvented cylinder and replacing the cold main to the property. To save money the customer dug the trench for the new main. I'm disconnecting the old fittings and he is removing them and disposing.

I get very frustrated when people rush into jobs without proper planning. Not just DIYers some professionals are guilty of it as well. I used to work for a national company and a lot of the problems on installs were created when engineers rushed into a job without checking it out properly first and then waste time putting right problems that should have been noticed before the job commenced.