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- Thread starter Sam D
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View the thread, titled "Advice for my son please?" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
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The maths ain't right.
I don't think the hours are there for him at present if he continues in his teaching job while trying to do plumbing qualifications.
" leaving house at 7 ... back at 6..... then at least 3 hours work at home .... 6 or 7 days a week" doesn't leave any time for anything other than sleeping, unless he doesn't take meals. I make that over 14 hours work related per day - at minimum of 84 to 98 hours per week?
The teachers I know have nearly all their time off outside school, with the few exceptions at school functions. And they still complain.
I think it might be the wrong school if he is always doing those hours.
I don't think the hours are there for him at present if he continues in his teaching job while trying to do plumbing qualifications.
" leaving house at 7 ... back at 6..... then at least 3 hours work at home .... 6 or 7 days a week" doesn't leave any time for anything other than sleeping, unless he doesn't take meals. I make that over 14 hours work related per day - at minimum of 84 to 98 hours per week?
The teachers I know have nearly all their time off outside school, with the few exceptions at school functions. And they still complain.
I think it might be the wrong school if he is always doing those hours.
Sam, I know a lad who went down the course route. He is doing okay, and I helped out with his evidence. Another one I know struggled badly and ended up fitting meters full time. Nothing wrong with that but BORING.
The point is trying to find mentors. Search here and on the other well known DIY site and you will find dozens of posts offering free labour for mentoring and no one is interested. In my 2 cases, I only agreed as one is a friend's son, and the other a friend of a very good friend. I use to fun a heating shop and turned down requests almost weekly. There was a big local training centre. Strangely, I NEVER had an appt OK each from the centre themselves. In my opinion the centre should be arranging the mentors - but they know there will never be able to find enough without paying them. Free labour actually does us down, and we are responsible for any cock ups.
FWIW, my son in law is a NQT so I know the sacrifices that good teachers make. But a lot of the comments from others ARE valid.
All the best
The point is trying to find mentors. Search here and on the other well known DIY site and you will find dozens of posts offering free labour for mentoring and no one is interested. In my 2 cases, I only agreed as one is a friend's son, and the other a friend of a very good friend. I use to fun a heating shop and turned down requests almost weekly. There was a big local training centre. Strangely, I NEVER had an appt OK each from the centre themselves. In my opinion the centre should be arranging the mentors - but they know there will never be able to find enough without paying them. Free labour actually does us down, and we are responsible for any cock ups.
FWIW, my son in law is a NQT so I know the sacrifices that good teachers make. But a lot of the comments from others ARE valid.
All the best
'Mummy' hasn't steered him into teaching or anything for that matter. In fact, 'mummy' tried to talk him out of it!
Life isn't Disney. We know.
I asked a perfectly reasonable question. I got a load of negativity to put it mildly. You have NO IDEA of my sons abilities, circumstances or anything. You just pour scorn on someone for only lord knows why. I came on this forum for a simple bit of advice as I figured it would be best to go to those in the know.
I didn't expect to come across so many small minded individuals who make assumptions about others.
If you think teaching is so bloody marvellous, why don't you go and do it?
Life isn't Disney. We know.
I asked a perfectly reasonable question. I got a load of negativity to put it mildly. You have NO IDEA of my sons abilities, circumstances or anything. You just pour scorn on someone for only lord knows why. I came on this forum for a simple bit of advice as I figured it would be best to go to those in the know.
I didn't expect to come across so many small minded individuals who make assumptions about others.
If you think teaching is so bloody marvellous, why don't you go and do it?
Never heard of a 'hands off' day in regards to teaching, sadly.
No one is being negative with you we are just telling you how it is in this industry ! at 26 years of age he has only just started in his chosen career & not really given it a far chance, You mention that he cant take a large drop in earnings, is this because he has a mortgage and family to support ? Some have asked what is the minimum wage he could get by on and this question hasn't been answered !! starting as he is without any experience at all in the plumbing industry he is going to find it almost impossible to understand how systems work, doing the ACS will not teach him anything about how systems work, (in fact it will teach him very little other than the gas safety rules,) and this knowledge is required to do gas engineering work, most on here started doing plumbing work then after a number of years trained to do gas work, as with any job if you don't understand the basic's then you will never get anywhere, at the moment he is looking at a min of 10 years and by then if he is lucky he may have caught up with what he is earning now , Please don't think that by doing the ACS course within 2 to 3 years he will be earning the same or more than he is now ! It will not happen, will get disheartened, give it up and wish he had never left teaching ! with the education he has had he could do something better with his life, this is not an easy job to do, it involves long hrs., working in some disgusting conditions, a lot of heavy work and out in all weathers, its not all about working in customers homes drinking tea all day, We Proberly have to do more training & attend more courses than he did wile training to be a Teacher, He needs to think long & hard B4 jumping into the building industry, Don't be misled by what these training schools tell you ! they only want your money.
I was certainly wanting to be negative about a teacher trying to become a gas plumber - and also doing that while not dropping in wages too much while training.
I have no idea what your son is capable of, but I will assume he is brilliant at learning and also great with working with his hands. But there is no doubt that a 20 year old plumber is already way ahead in experience and qualification, to put it into perspective.
Your son would be best to consider doing bathroom installs, using different trades. That way he needs no qualifications.
I have no idea what your son is capable of, but I will assume he is brilliant at learning and also great with working with his hands. But there is no doubt that a 20 year old plumber is already way ahead in experience and qualification, to put it into perspective.
Your son would be best to consider doing bathroom installs, using different trades. That way he needs no qualifications.
You guys need to go commercial if you think money is low omg :O
Why, do you find it a struggle ?
No i meant it the other way money is great, jobs around birmingham are starting about 32k-38k
My wife a teacher. All her friends are too.
They all get decent money holidays and pension.
That's three things I don't get much of.
They all moan about thier job, just like we do .
Every job has its plus and minus. Bit this trade is getting harder for less money.
I would not recommend anyone doing it as a career, just as the op's son wouldn't do it either.
They all get decent money holidays and pension.
That's three things I don't get much of.
They all moan about thier job, just like we do .
Every job has its plus and minus. Bit this trade is getting harder for less money.
I would not recommend anyone doing it as a career, just as the op's son wouldn't do it either.
I believe I wrote to you politely and without malice.It is a little offensive to then read this. It is true that no-one answered your "question", I have done so now. The reason that there was no reply was probably because it was fairly obvious, but ,TBF, one sometimes cannot see the wood for the trees. But pretty much every post was accurate, and I am 99% sure that your son will not be able to afford to become a RGI, for the reasons thoroughly discussed.
And, to answer your slightly churlish final question - FWIW, a lot of plumbers/RGIs do go onto to teach at college. But if you mean SCHOOL teaching, then the answer is probably the same. We could not afford to go through the training.
It is probably the case that ex plumbers would make excellent teachers, having had real world experience, rather than spending their entire post 5 years of age lives in the institution of education
In fairness to both sides, I have a friend whose girlfriend is a teacher. I asked her if it were the case that a lot of teachers are stupid and lazy. She replied that I was one of the few people who would understand why her job was so hard then - many of her colleagues were stupid and lazy and she was having to pull in the slack they were creating.
I suspect, though, that teaching gets easier with time, as the first year's lesson plans can form a base to be re-hashed for the second year etc., so you don't have to work from scratch after a while.
Also depends on the school. A grammar school can be very easy. Some of my teachers at a grammar school were absolutely useless, but they told us to work harder and generally got the results they wanted. Quite easy when the school can pick and choose who goes there and get rid of the undesirable pupils. A school which is the last choice has more challenging behaviour, and can, I'm told, have parents telling an IT teacher that they disagree with their son doing IT at all, so don't care that he messes about, because 'I.T. is all obsolete' (true story).
Basically, plumbing is hard work. If you enjoy the work, it's worth doing. If you just want to make a decent amount of money with relative ease, it really isn't worth the effort involved. Quite honestly, though teaching can be hard too, at least you're on a salary and have job security.
I suspect, though, that teaching gets easier with time, as the first year's lesson plans can form a base to be re-hashed for the second year etc., so you don't have to work from scratch after a while.
Also depends on the school. A grammar school can be very easy. Some of my teachers at a grammar school were absolutely useless, but they told us to work harder and generally got the results they wanted. Quite easy when the school can pick and choose who goes there and get rid of the undesirable pupils. A school which is the last choice has more challenging behaviour, and can, I'm told, have parents telling an IT teacher that they disagree with their son doing IT at all, so don't care that he messes about, because 'I.T. is all obsolete' (true story).
Basically, plumbing is hard work. If you enjoy the work, it's worth doing. If you just want to make a decent amount of money with relative ease, it really isn't worth the effort involved. Quite honestly, though teaching can be hard too, at least you're on a salary and have job security.
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I’ve been working for a company since left school,I feel I’ve got the experience an confidence to go on my own now but the finiancial situation still worries me now I have family an a place.If your son is up for the challenge an accepts the risks fair play go for it you may enjoy this job more but I can honestly say that even though I have experience it still worries me
Hello Sam D,
I am reasonably sure that British Gas will require the CCN1 `Core Gas Safety` AND the Gas Appliance ACS Categories that You mentioned prior to someone being employed by them as a `Gas Engineer` as they need Engineers who can be sent out to ANY Domestic Gas Appliance.
Although I have been `Unlucky` regarding Injuries during my life I wonder if some details of `MY Working Lifetime` [more than 52 years] of working in the Plumbing, Heating & Gas Industries would be of interest to You / your Son.
Here is a copy of my message replying to a thread which asked something like `Would you be happy for your Son to become a Plumber`:
QUOTE:
Unfortunately I would not recommend my Son or anyone else to come into the Plumbing, Heating & Gas installation Trades / Industry purely because of MY experience of what has happened to my body.
This is NOT meant to come across as me resenting a lifetime in our Trades / Industry - I have done quite well out of it.
Perhaps I have been `unlucky` in getting all of the `Injuries` / Physical problems that working has caused - although I used to be quite fit and strong as a younger man that did not prevent the injuries - also I know other Plumbers, Heating Engineers and Gas Engineers who have similar to what I describe below:
If I was a school leaver now but somehow had the knowledge of our Trades / the Injuries that I have had after a lifetime as a Plumber, Heating Engineer & Gas Engineer unfortunately I would not enter into an Apprenticeship for those Trades - I would prefer to become an Electrician.
Although my trades have given me a good living and a very nice Home - a lifetime working very hard has caused me to have a really bad / inoperable Back problem - lower back vertebrae and discs worn badly by almost constant bending when installing underfloor pipework and bending while doing just about everything that we work on.
Also both knees have had so much cartilage removed in 4 Arthroscopy`s that even walking causes pain and a grating sensation that feels like `bone on bone` - those knee problems were caused by `eroding` and tearing the cartilage frequently while getting up from the kneeling position that we get into probably 100 - 200 times a day when installing Heating, Plumbing & Gas pipework and almost everything else that we do on a daily basis
I also have worn vertebrae in my neck [cervical vertebrae ?] caused by constant looking downwards when installing underfloor pipework - apart from often causing bad pain my neck / top of my spine sometimes `locks up` - that is so painful that I often cannot turn my head or even get into a position which allows me to sleep.
I have arthritis in both hands from the probably hundreds of thousands of times that I have used tools / gripped things / lifted things.
When various episode of those `Injuries` occurred they caused me to have to not work for Months at a time - when my Back injury first happened I had 2 Years off work and was basically `fit for nothing` for about the first 4 Months when I went back to work - installing Heating systems was out of the question.
My Back / lower vertebrae & discs are so bad that I have injured it frequently since the original injury - the worn vertebrae / discs allow a disc to `slip` if I am not VERY careful - a disc hits my spinal cord and I would be put to the floor instantly - that would cause weeks off work.
I have been lucky in that I have worked with a friend / partner running our own Business for almost 30 years so although my injuries have caused us problems every time - we have been able to take on Tradesmen to cover my time off and I have been able to ease back into working each time when I have recovered.
Also fortunately for us my Wife has had a good Career / the same Company all Her working life so we have not had any problems keeping our Mortgage and Bills paid when I could not work.
If I was not a partner in a small reasonably successful Business or my Wife did not have such a good / well paid job my Back injury [2 years off work] would have financially ruined me - I would definitely have lost my Home.
Of course I know that a serious injury like that could have happened to Me while working in many different `physical jobs` - but my Back / lower vertebrae have actually been eroded by all of the bending that our Industries require.
I don`t want to annoy our Members / any Electrician on here - or come across as a `Traitor` to our Industries - but from a lifetime working alongside Electricians if I could have my working life again I would now choose to be an Electrician.
Although I know that they also are bending over and having to get up from a kneeling position many times a day I still perceive their work as `easier` than ours.
I have witnessed a lot of different types of Electrical work and I am basing my opinion on the Industrial / Commercial Electrical works that I have seen - not `Domestic Electrics` - although Domestic installations entail almost constant bending / getting up from kneeling so is also hard on the Back and Knees.
I know that the Technical knowledge aspect of Electrical Installation and the Electrical Engineering Industry in general is very detailed / comprehensive but I am guessing no more so than the Technical knowledge that we require for Plumbing, Heating and Gas Safety ?
As I mentioned I don`regret` my Trades / Working life - our Industries have been good to me financially [apart from a few Years off with injuries] - but my Body has been ruined in the process.
Chris
END OF QUOTE
Sam - I have posted the above details to reinforce comments from other Members about our Trades / Works being very hard on our body`s.
Although I am now at the end of my working life - some of my very debilitating injuries happened when I was in my 40`s.
Also - mentioned that I had been `Unlucky` regarding my Injuries - but I have known MANY Plumbers, Heating Engineers & Gas Engineers who have suffered similar serious Injuries to their Backs and Knees.
Almost every Tradesman that I have ever known over about the age of 40 - some much younger - have had long lasting physically limiting Injuries which affected not only their ability to work as well as they could when younger - but also other aspects of their lives.
Sorry that this is not a `message of encouragement` but I wanted to describe the possibility / probability that our physically demanding work can often Damage our body`s - sometimes `beyond Surgical repair`.
Regards,
Chris
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Michael1960
Plumber
Its called non contact time. My 2 kids are both teachers. One was a Plumber for 10 years, time served level 3 gas safe. He now has marvellous holidays doesnt have to wear 3 pairs of trousers in the winter on 1st fixes and has a fantastic pension to look forward to. The daughter teaches primary age kids and loves it. The holidays are spent catching up with all her "uni" friends. And sunbathing. Dont give all that up!!
There have been some really sarcastic and unhelpful replies to SamD's original email. She's just trying to help her son.
Fortunately, there have been constructive replies, as well.
Fortunately, there have been constructive replies, as well.
My point I'm making is if you were asking for help, would you want to get these kind of replies? I would assume not.
I would want the truth rather than a rose tinted version.
As Jack Nicholson said to Tom Cruise. "You can't handle the truth."
Perhaps it would also have been better for the son to have done the asking rather than getting mummy/daddy to do it.
Truth is It's a tough mans/womans game and I would rather tell it as it is. Or should we not offend people's sensibilities by only telling them what they want/expect to hear. Unfortunately we live in an increasingly pc world where too many snowflakes are hurt or offended by ridiculous situations or statements. Time for the world to grow a pair and stop with the mamby pamby crap and get on with it.
I can also confirm that the last place anybody should take advice from is the training centre they intend paying.
Oh and to rephrase my original response to you. Just what are you bringing to the topic?
Well, firstly, I'm definitely not a snowflake and I'm not PC at all. I cannot stand any of that idiocy. I'd counter what you said, though by saying that it's just as typical to answer in a negative way, because it's so easy to do. Yes, the OP has been given some sound advice but not from everyone.
I know a plumber whose brother-in-law wanted to get into the trade and he told him what a tough career it can be. In fact he only lasted a week, so I know some of the pitfalls. I wasn't objecting to telling it how it is.
I know a plumber whose brother-in-law wanted to get into the trade and he told him what a tough career it can be. In fact he only lasted a week, so I know some of the pitfalls. I wasn't objecting to telling it how it is.
Yes, Capricious, I agree some of the sarcasm about mummy's boy etc. did come across as point-scoring rather than actually answering the question that was being asked and there was definitely a hint of working-class vs middle-class rivalry (though I'd argue both plumbers and teachers are workers, as our income depends the work we do rather than what we own).
But hopefully the OP has had some of the answers she needs?
FWIW, I once applied for a BG apprenticeship and, had I been offered the job and accepted, I would have had a £10,000 a year starting salary from day 1, which is probably a better deal than having to train around schoolteaching and trying to jump straight from one salaried job to another successfully. May be worth asking BG what they need, rather than asking a forum where most of the members dislike BG anyway?
But hopefully the OP has had some of the answers she needs?
FWIW, I once applied for a BG apprenticeship and, had I been offered the job and accepted, I would have had a £10,000 a year starting salary from day 1, which is probably a better deal than having to train around schoolteaching and trying to jump straight from one salaried job to another successfully. May be worth asking BG what they need, rather than asking a forum where most of the members dislike BG anyway?
Thanks Ric.
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