Advice from a plumber needed

[Newdidit]

Having read the do's and dont's of threads I'm hoping this is ok. I need some advice before I argue my case with a company that I have had a boiler service and home emergency plan with.
I have the top plan with this company with a supposed claim limit of £1000 per annum.
My boiler is a Vaillent Eco TEC plus 831 and it was installed in 2008 it has been serviced every year since with this company taking over 2 years ago.
We have recently had a problem with pressure dropping and following a service it was identified that the expansion vessel needs replacing. Ok so the process is the engineer sends his report and this company give authorisation ......now here is my problem.
They have phoned me to say that because the repair is more than 60% of the worth of the boiler it is not an economical repair and they will not authorise it ....but because I have been a loyal customer they will put me in touch with a local Vaillent representative who will do the repair at a cost to me of £350 and at the same time they cancel my account with them.
I am absolutely gob smacked by this but what I really need to know before I ring them back is ...is this repair a viable economical one and is the price they are quoting a bit steep......so any advice greatly appreciated

 

[rpm]

Get that in writing first
And welcome to the forums

 

[Newdidit]

Get what in writing .....what they said to me on the phone about it not being economical to repair etc ?

 

[rpm]

Yep that, always get stuff like this in writing or email then harder for them to say that you misunderstood

 

[Newdidit]

I will ask for that thank you

 

[Best]

And the idea also is they will realise they could have a problem if they put their words into print.
They might even backtrack

 

[rpm]

And the idea also is they will realise they could have a problem if they put their words into print.
They might even backtrack

Exactly, I love to make the buggers think twice

 

[townfanjon]

its a bit daft me guessing the price of the vessel but £350 supplied and fitted sounds a bit steep to me, its a very easy vessel to swap. But a lot depends on the rates where you are.

 

[rpm]

Wonder how they reach 60%
Cost of new boiler - life expectancy of such - age of current boiler - = ?

 

[Best]

Exactly, I love to make the buggers think twice

I knew what your devious mind was up to!

 

[Deleted member 56158]

£350!!@! For a vessel swap! Where do you live Dubai! Jesus, anywhere in the UK should be no more than £200.

 

[rpm]

I knew what your devious mind was up to!

Hahaha
I've been here to long, you sussed me

 

[rpm]

£350!!@! For a vessel swap! Where do you live Dubai! Jesus, anywhere in the UK should be no more than £200.

Or central London

 

[Leo21]

Wonder how they reach 60%
Cost of new boiler - life expectancy of such - age of current boiler - = ?

As above, ask them about there formula for working this out. £350 is steep, plus it's a common fault. It might only need pumping up, twenty minutes work.

 

[Best]

I used to see similar happening with oil boilers on a service/insurance plan.
Once the boiler got fairly old the company then advised their customer to get a new boiler as old one was obsolete.
Largely just bull so the insurance doesn't have the more frequent costs.
They take the big money and pay small money over first few years (they hope) and then walk away.

 

[A1P]

Just let me get this clear,you have the top level of cover with supposedly a maximum of a £1000 per year claim limit.What sort of company can happily take your money until a claim is made then try to wriggle out of it? It is disgraceful.They then have the cheek to try to get you to pay for the repair and punish you by cancelling your account.I would make clear that this is totally unacceptable and that you will fight it all the way.Only when they have met their obligations should the account be closed,by you.They are relying on you needing to get this sorted.If you feel you need to get it repaired make sure they know you will pursue them for the cost.

 

[Riley]

This is why I hate these schemes. Get shot of them and find a small reliable local gsr to give the work to.

 

[rpm]

I used to see similar happening with oil boilers on a service/insurance plan.
Once the boiler got fairly old the company then advised their customer to get a new boiler as old one was obsolete.
Largely just bull so the insurance doesn't have the more frequent costs.
They take the big money and pay small money over first few years (they hope) and then walk away.

Same with dog and vet insurance but they hike the cost sky high

 

[rpm]

How much a month is this costing you

 

[Newdidit]

Yes you have got it correct, I started paying £20 a month this went up to £23 a month when it was automatically renewed. I cannot believe the way they have responded to this repair.....and used the term loyal customer so they will arrange the repair but it will cost me and then they cancel my account so I don't pay anymore DDs the more I think about the worse it sounds. I have already read up on how and when to complain to the retail ombudsman and I will make sure they are aware that I intend to do so I am so angry I'm taking it as far as I can and they are going to do the repair I'm making sure they do......and meant to say not Dubai or London live in Northampton

 

[Leo21]

Good for you, they deserve all they get.

 

[jonnyswamp]

Name and shame

 

[king of pipes]

£200 fix bud , shocking service name and shame em

 

[Leo21]

£200 fix bud , shocking service name and shame em

You rip off merchant, I charge £199.

 

[Newdidit]

Who we name and shaming the plumber or the service plan company ?..... I need three quotes anyway that's what my dad always taught me ....but anyway I'm on a mission to get it done by the service plan anyway will keep you informed thanks everyone for your help and advice much appreciated

 

[gmartine]

Forget the ombudsman, have the repair done and sue them for it in the small claims.

 

[king of pipes]

The service plan company they have the final say , we all know life span of a combi manufacturers say 7-10 years but you have to be sensible I have some 15+ years old still going strong that I look after if serviced properly trouble is alot of these engineers get to much piled on to em 10+ jobs a day and the computer or tablet pinging ever 5 minutes wanting to know we're you are , see it all the time fire up flue as anylyser in reading ok , minimum checks then off they go what have they done a safety check but you the customer think your getting a full service then what happens × amount of months down the line boiler breaks down , your paying for a break down service which includes a full service each year on a valliant is 11/2 hour job , the boiler should be drained down and the vessels internal diaphragm pressure checked as part of that service your paying for a service which you are not getting and have every right to complain and demand your money back , get the work done by a local guy and persue it through the small claims court good luck .

 

[Masood]

What sort of company can happily take your money until a claim is made then try to wriggle out of it? It is disgraceful.

Pretty much every insurance company ever! They are in business to take as many premiums as possible, and deny as many claims as they can get away with.

 

[Newdidit]

Ok have just rung the service plan company.....I said that I considered their actions were disgraceful and why had I not been made aware when they rang me to take out this policy that when my boiler was 7 years old they do not pay for repairs if it is economical to do so particularly as my boiler was 6 years old when I took out the policy....the response was that this was not down to them it was my responsibility to read the terms and conditions.....I said that Ifelt this was quite misleading to sell such a product with no mention of this clause. I advised that I would be making a complaint and asked for their explanation for not doing the repair to be sent to me in writing and advised that I would take my complaint to the ombudsmen. She told me that they are not an insurance company and therefore they are not regulated by them so I asked who were they regulated or responsible to and she said no one.....I find this amazing that are not regulated by some body. I also said that the price of £350 was far too expensive and that I had obtained further quotes of between £200 and £250 but she was having none of it. So the upshot is I have now cancelled my DD and my policy I now need to get a quote to have the work done, I await their letter to make my complaint and find out who they should be responsible too if anyone. So I did not succeed in my mission to get the work done by them but this will not end here. Thank you for your help and advice and I will make sure that everyone is aware of this clause and the company involved once my complaint has gone in.

 

[Last Plumber]

It's sad to say it but I hear this kind of story a lot.

Best bet, keep your money in the bank, find a good, recommended, Gas Safe Engineer for your future needs.

Good luck with the complaint !

 

[rpm]

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]

Sounds like you gave it a good shot, there is a section of the forum you could use above.

 

[rpm]

I would check them out online, insurance company not regulated?

 

[Newdidit]

They reckon they are not an insurance company so not regulated by the ombudsman in fact she reckons there is no one who regulates them that I can complain too

 

[king of pipes]

They must be regulated by someone contact trading standards all the best .

 

[rpm]

They reckon they are not an insurance company so not regulated by the ombudsman in fact she reckons there is no one who regulates them that I can complain too

What does it say on the paperwork when you signed up?

 

[Best]

I would take a careful look over the original paperwork they got you to agree to.
If it is not fair, you could take it further I bet.
Go to Citizens Advice with your paperwork and other details and tell them what the woman from the company said about them being responsible to nobody.

 

[A1P]

They reckon they are not an insurance company so not regulated by the ombudsman in fact she reckons there is no one who regulates them that I can complain too

I have just been on the Retail Ombudsman site which I think you mentioned in an earlier post.They have a whole page devoted to these kind of disputes.I would have one last go at them directing them to the page.It also ensures you follow the procedure correctly.I would consider drawing their attention to this Forum.You could point out that you have not as yet posted their details.If/when you do they will certainly incur a loss via the post and by engineers actively encouraging people to leave such schemes.As advised above Trading Standards and Citizens Advice are other options.

 

[Newdidit]

This is the paragraph in the terms and conditions that is going to be my stumbling block but I still maintain you should be made aware of at the time of sale
" Boiler Breakdown Cover: Upon making a claim, the total cost of parts ( including VAT) required to repair the boiler will be determined by us using reputable suppliers, if this cost exceeds 60% of the manufacturers current retail price ( or if this is not available the average current retail price available through a leading UK supplier ) for a boiler of the same or similar make and model to your boiler or the then current version of your boiler, it will be deemed to be beyond economical repair."
BER ( beyond economical repair ) if upon making a claim your boiler is deemed to be BER and your is 7 years old or under we will make a contribution of £200 towards the cost of a new boiler.

I argue that why was I not informed of this when they sold me the plan knowing that my boiler was at that time already 6 years old. She said that was not their responsibility to do so I should have read the terms and conditions. In a way she may well be right but it still does make me feel responsible for the position I am in now.

 

[Newdidit]

Yes I have contacted the retail ombudsmen to ask if they do cover such a business. I need to complain to the company first and receive a response I believe before I can use them. I have already mentioned the ombudsman....she wasn't interested I mentioned this site and prices quoted....she wasn't interested I mentioned the small claim court....she said goodbye lol

 

[Chalked]

This is the paragraph in the terms and conditions that is going to be my stumbling block but I still maintain you should be made aware of at the time of sale
" Boiler Breakdown Cover: Upon making a claim, the total cost of parts ( including VAT) required to repair the boiler will be determined by us using reputable suppliers, if this cost exceeds 60% of the manufacturers current retail price ( or if this is not available the average current retail price available through a leading UK supplier ) for a boiler of the same or similar make and model to your boiler or the then current version of your boiler, it will be deemed to be beyond economical repair."
BER ( beyond economical repair ) if upon making a claim your boiler is deemed to be BER and your is 7 years old or under we will make a contribution of £200 towards the cost of a new boiler.

I argue that why was I not informed of this when they sold me the plan knowing that my boiler was at that time already 6 years old. She said that was not their responsibility to do so I should have read the terms and conditions. In a way she may well be right but it still does make me feel responsible for the position I am in now.

You have them there.
Replacing an expansion vessel should cost about £200. They quoted higher . A new boiler at cost will be over £1100 so the repair would have to cost going on £700 to be 60%.

 

[rpm]

You have them there.
Replacing an expansion vessel should cost about £200. They quoted higher . A new boiler at cost will be over £1100 so the repair would have to cost going on £700 to be 60%.

Don`t forget the age clause unless I mis read.

 

[Newdidit]

I was going to look to see what a similar manufacturers current retail price would be to determine that it is a Vaillent Eco TEC plus 831

 

[A1P]

You have them there.
Replacing an expansion vessel should cost about £200. They quoted higher . A new boiler at cost will be over £1100 so the repair would have to cost going on £700 to be 60%.

Great minds!! I was just going to say boiler cost at internet prices £1150 ,expansion vessel £50 plus, fitting if they want to add that £150 max.Hope this concentrates their minds.Are they in breach of their own contract?