Y Plan to combi. drain and rip out existing boiler, remove tiles so new boiler fits, brick up internal flue hole. Drill new flue hole. washing machine and cooker has to come out numerous times to access stopcock and complete pipework below worktop. Worcester 24i jr hung and piped up. Hot, cold and condense drilled through worktop. gas pipe altered. F+E isolated and removed, cylinder left in for hot water for as long as necessary. cylinder removed, pipework in airing cupboard altered to suit combi. all redundant pipework from airing cupboard removed. tanks removed including numerous trips in and out of loft to remove everything and empty dregs of CWS tank. (no boards in ceiling whatsoever) Fill system and test. System cleaner added, redundant switches/sockets blanked, new wireless controls added, trunking added to conceal cable in airing cupboard, new ply added to floor to make good, old clips removed and holes filled. Boiler area made good - tiles cut and replaced where necessary, trim added to boiler area where tiling not suitable. New boiler commissioned, all scrap pipe/cylinder/rubbish removed with van a bit of a trek away.On your own how long?. Not a massive Property 1 bed house with 4 large rads. Easy for some but first y plan to combi done by myself. Pics coming.
- Thread starter armyash
- Start date
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
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tamz
J
jase158
I have to speed up. Thing is I didn't stop, haven't eaten in work and not stopped sweating! lol
I consider myself slow and would take 2.5 - 3 days assuming everything whent to plan, longer if not. I would prefer to go in as a pair and do it in a day and a half. There is far greater efficiency with 2 than simply half the time 1 person would take.
Drain system then 1 takes out boiler while other syphons cylinder. 1 bricks up old flue while the other strips out loft. 1 cores wall for flue while other alters airing cupboard pipework and lifts boards to cut out dead legs. Hang boiler and pipe up while other tidies up or does wiring or bricks up outside old flue hole or completes condense pipework under sink or to gulley etc. Semi skilled apprentice would be ideal but have never had 1.
Drain system then 1 takes out boiler while other syphons cylinder. 1 bricks up old flue while the other strips out loft. 1 cores wall for flue while other alters airing cupboard pipework and lifts boards to cut out dead legs. Hang boiler and pipe up while other tidies up or does wiring or bricks up outside old flue hole or completes condense pipework under sink or to gulley etc. Semi skilled apprentice would be ideal but have never had 1.
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tamz
Ash i've never eaten at work for 30 years and i've got the job done in my head as i walk in the door but i adapt the plan if i see a better way as i go.
You'll learn. Don't think about what you are doing think about what you are doing next.
2 days will pysh it, you'll see its not so hard :wink:
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Ermintrude
Day if you think about it.
Do TT cap
Open hot tap. Turn off mains
Open cold tap.
Set rads away draining down
Sheet up.
Empty ch headder dregs into DHW cistern. Prop it up with ch cistern so water drains out as much as possible.
Start cutting off lagging and cut up vents. Then remove cold supply then everything else . Put all scrap in small headder. Rubbish and lagging in bigger headder. Put pushfit on outlets. Get down lift out rubbish.
Drain cylinder, while it's draining remove immersion cut out all un needed pipework. Remove cylinder bridge out and blank as req.
Carry out loot rubbish and cylinder. Cuppa.
Remove boiler and clear site for new one . Hang do flue and pipe up. Do gas first so it's cool when u do TT. Fill DHW check for leaks. Fill and vent.
Set TT away. Wire up. Check TT. Run boiler do conny and blow off while boilers getting hot. Clear up. Have lunch. 3pm ish. Commission. Come back next day and do all bits. Drain and refill system.
Don't keep going in and out of loft / work area. When u go to van carry some thing there and something back. Always think 2 steps ahead. Half lads running all over because they can't see what they are doing two moves infront.
Do TT cap
Open hot tap. Turn off mains
Open cold tap.
Set rads away draining down
Sheet up.
Empty ch headder dregs into DHW cistern. Prop it up with ch cistern so water drains out as much as possible.
Start cutting off lagging and cut up vents. Then remove cold supply then everything else . Put all scrap in small headder. Rubbish and lagging in bigger headder. Put pushfit on outlets. Get down lift out rubbish.
Drain cylinder, while it's draining remove immersion cut out all un needed pipework. Remove cylinder bridge out and blank as req.
Carry out loot rubbish and cylinder. Cuppa.
Remove boiler and clear site for new one . Hang do flue and pipe up. Do gas first so it's cool when u do TT. Fill DHW check for leaks. Fill and vent.
Set TT away. Wire up. Check TT. Run boiler do conny and blow off while boilers getting hot. Clear up. Have lunch. 3pm ish. Commission. Come back next day and do all bits. Drain and refill system.
Don't keep going in and out of loft / work area. When u go to van carry some thing there and something back. Always think 2 steps ahead. Half lads running all over because they can't see what they are doing two moves infront.
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tamz
We all had to learn usually by being flung in at the deep end.
My first full system was a 9 rad open system in an orlit house , baxi bbu, rip out out the old open fireplace, drop feeds, conversion coil.
I finished it in 4 days as i had the Tuesday at the collage.
I was a hungry 17 year old on £21/wk and only got offered the job as one of the tradesmen phoned in sick.
I got the going rate for the job which was price work of £68.
I never looked back after that.
A year later i was doing them in 3 days, the year after doing 2 a week and still had 1 day at collage.
You learn.
Biggest thing to learn is how houses are built.
Know this and you won't waste time trying to run pipes the hard way.
My first full system was a 9 rad open system in an orlit house , baxi bbu, rip out out the old open fireplace, drop feeds, conversion coil.
I finished it in 4 days as i had the Tuesday at the collage.
I was a hungry 17 year old on £21/wk and only got offered the job as one of the tradesmen phoned in sick.
I got the going rate for the job which was price work of £68.
I never looked back after that.
A year later i was doing them in 3 days, the year after doing 2 a week and still had 1 day at collage.
You learn.
Biggest thing to learn is how houses are built.
Know this and you won't waste time trying to run pipes the hard way.
Glad you're not my boss! In all seriousness though I know there are ways I can speed things up but it's all about doing the jobs a few times and getting a better routine. It would have made life easier if I could have ripped everything out straight away and got rid straight away. Also can't be piling the van up with scrap when I will need to get stuff on and off when it's needed. I'm taking positives from it because I learnt a lot. Starting another Combi conversion Monday so should be able to go in running after this.
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tamz
If you have a big van its not a problem. If not leave the strip out for day 2 (bar the cylinder)
Btw always throw scrap straight in the van. Never leave it where the bstd custs can see it :wink:
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tamz
Thats an rse for elbow way of doing it for me but everyone to their own. You'll learn what way suits you best.
Don't worry about it. This job is easy when you get your head in gear.
2 days for me , if boilers in same position its a straight forward rip out old sh!te first then fit boiler but if the boilers either going on a different wall or different position then il fit new boiler and run pipes leaving the folks with heating as long as poss, usually id have everything ready first day ( unless complications arise ) and swap over and test on day 2,
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Mike Jackson
I've just done a similar job but with TRVs on all rads and a right pig of a run to get the hot water connected. Priced it on three days, could easily have done it in two but saved the TRvs and flush for day 3 so I could take my time finishing up. Still had time for 3 jobs after I finished on Thursday and home for 4. Got heating back up and running on day one and left the immersion in so they had hot water. Wasted an hour on Tuesday tracing where a mystery pump under the stairs was connected to, only to find it was connected to pipework that had been disconnected. It was still connected to a mains feed and running though, amazingly it had been running dry for years and not seized.
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Rickster123
Ash are you happy with the job? Is the customer happy? Does it work?? If it ticks these three boxes that's all that matters. As others have said speed will come with practice. It's still a learning curve and I'm sure you learnt a lot on that job.
looks good to me, fair play for having the nuts to put pictures up.
looks good to me, fair play for having the nuts to put pictures up.
I'm happy with the install, I think it looks ok. It all works. If I was working for myself I'd have no problems at all. I flapped a but the first day and I was concentrating on the wrong things. Now I know where I can knock a day off if I go about it the right way. I won't be able to do it in a day, I know my boss will say to leave the cylinder but I reckon I can get done in 2.
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Dotty
That's the main thing Ash. You've learned, your confidence is up, you're happy, your custard is happy, your boss is mostly happy.
Everyone has to walk before they can run.
Except Tamz......
Hi Ash,
As stated, you have got Go Nads of putting up pictures of one of your jobs.
Don't be too flustered about how long it took you to complete.
( As an employer - there are many exceptions to this rule )
If everybody is happy and the system works, you've done well.
Doing things in record time is sometimes fraught with mistakes.
I would rather take time and do a job properly and correctly than do it quick and have to go back to rectify careless / stupid mistakes.
Not only is it costly, it reduces the customers confidence in you and they start to question the quality of the job.
Be proud of yourself and the work that you do.
Practice will not make you perfect, but it will speed you up and give you more confidence.
Keep up the good work
As stated, you have got Go Nads of putting up pictures of one of your jobs.
Don't be too flustered about how long it took you to complete.
( As an employer - there are many exceptions to this rule )
If everybody is happy and the system works, you've done well.
Doing things in record time is sometimes fraught with mistakes.
I would rather take time and do a job properly and correctly than do it quick and have to go back to rectify careless / stupid mistakes.
Not only is it costly, it reduces the customers confidence in you and they start to question the quality of the job.
Be proud of yourself and the work that you do.
Practice will not make you perfect, but it will speed you up and give you more confidence.
Keep up the good work
R
Rickster123
Every job is different I suppose. Last week I had a baxi back boiler and cylinder in loft . Changed to a combi in the kitchen. First day I removed a bit of worktop hung boiler and started running in pipes. There was a bit of room und er the floor and it was carpets so was lucky I could lift plenty hatches. Got all pipes run in on day one bearing in mind I work long days so hours put in would probably be 2 n a half days. You might come accross problems as no two jobs are yhd same so each to there own.Here's couple pics of the job. I had to cut unit and worktop once boiler fitted.
Attachments
Very good but I have spotted 1 problem! You only mentioned 1 cup of tea! I can't survive like that I need at least 3 or 4.
I'm not the quickest by far (I can't seem to do a combi swap under 9-10 hours) I would look at 3 days myself.
I am one of these though that to try and keep disruption to a minimum I try to leave hot water etc on as long as possible. I think this does make things longer but customers seem happy with it.
All these lads who can do it in a day I take my hat off to you all you must be machines!
I am one of these though that to try and keep disruption to a minimum I try to leave hot water etc on as long as possible. I think this does make things longer but customers seem happy with it.
All these lads who can do it in a day I take my hat off to you all you must be machines!
It is not always possible to leave hot water on all the times. I come across some cylinders with no immersion fitted.
Personally, I always tell customer it will take 2-3 days (assuming there are no hidden 'complications'). That way I cover my arzze before they start asking me at the beginning of day 2 if hot water is coming? Errrrmm, possibly, but remember I did say 2-3 days? That shuts them up
Personally, I always tell customer it will take 2-3 days (assuming there are no hidden 'complications'). That way I cover my arzze before they start asking me at the beginning of day 2 if hot water is coming? Errrrmm, possibly, but remember I did say 2-3 days? That shuts them up
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Ermintrude
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Rickster123
Good to see you back on mate. Where you been hiding? Hope you're keeping busy.
how did the advert at the football work out for you in the end?
Plenty of good replies here. I need to sort my routine out but it's hard when I have someone telling me do this do that. Although not ideal, if I could rip everything out straight away, even though the customer might have no hot water for a night the job would be done quicker. It will all work itself out eventually.
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sheff paul
Bit of 'swagger' from some of the replies on here,the truth is no job is the same,if the job went ok,customer happy,build your confidence.Truth is there is always gonna be quicker guys than you and slower guys.I bet your don't look at the urinal next to you when taking a ****...
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erpkid
Too true Erm fortunately down here you can still get a reasonable price so can take your time occasionally and have more pride in the end result. Doing more work for landlords recently so things might change..........................
Ive just done my first boiler swap for 2 years conventional with internal flue to combi in a 3 floor town house took me 3 days had 2 problems, the bathroom rad was on the primaries luckily the bathroom is going to be my next job and it will get connected up then the house is new to the present owner and they didnt know if it worked in summer so i had already said it could be a problem
and the main which i assumed run up a duct with all the other pipework didnt and had to join it to cold feed in loft again it can be crossed lower down when i do the bathroom always nice if you can leave a dry loft
belive it or not all the pipework is plumb the grout lines in the tile were 5 mm out of plumb above the work top and the other way below
and the main which i assumed run up a duct with all the other pipework didnt and had to join it to cold feed in loft again it can be crossed lower down when i do the bathroom always nice if you can leave a dry loft
belive it or not all the pipework is plumb the grout lines in the tile were 5 mm out of plumb above the work top and the other way below
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sheff paul
Always end up working on a 'price' I hate it with a passion, I will die at work,so my missus will carry on my posts on here..
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Ermintrude
Nice work. Do u not remove all your rubbish when ur doing a job? Just noticed a big lump on return ? [emoji74]logics are nice tho!
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Rickster123
- Dec 23, 2011
- 2,159
- 852
- 113
- Member Type
- Heating Engineer (Has GSR)
- Business Name
- ATouchofgas
Your not alone in that range of timescales mine often go that way. Normaly because I missed something daft at survey and end up changing a flue or condense route. All I know is when im done there is a good install in place and the customer is happy. I charge fairly but if I think I have run over because of my own inability to work faster I dont charge more I just take the hit. I am never going to be a wealthy man off the back of my company but its a living and thats all that matters to me.
That is of course the luxury of working for yourself no boss looking to eek a little more profit out of you. I prefer to earn less and live relatively stress free.
I know the timescales posted on this thread by some of our seasoned installers are pretty dam quick and I dare say they may even complete an install to a higher standard but as far as I am concerned, if you leave the customer with what you quoted for and above all else they are happy, job done.
Maybe in another 10 years I will be slinging in 6 pristine installs a week only time will tell but I doubt it I guess im just wired more tortoise than hare.
Yes.
Also it should be law for all lofts to have propper fixed crawl boatds and wired lighting and a socket if they have any plumbing in them.
And why do 50DDING diyers insist on fitting giant digital freeview aerials across the perlins in lofts or just generally in the way they always seem balanced on a nail or cable tied to something exactly where I need room to reach the other side of the loft for the f&e etc.
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lambchop
If you were a sole trader, it takes as long as it takes... You've priced it, you do the work, you're reputation is on the line and future work. In my drunk haze as everyone is now watching the recording of X factor, yes unfortunately there is no escape!
what I gather, you have a boss who obviously prices the job and has overheads and needs a profit etc or it goes pear shaped for everybody
You have to work to your bosses expect actions within a time limit, I'm not saying he/she is unreasonable, it's a business with profit in mind
im a subbie, that's my thing and there's a lot of peeps who are in command of their own destiny, sole trader, small med firms etc.
lost at my thread, fleur was on, sexy like Janet Jackson
many years ago I was a window fitter, multi million pound mansion to fit windows. The best team was sent down to fit. Great job well within time, the custard spent £50k on this.
surveyour sent down and company director on completion for hand over. Custard says 2 weeks for the job you done it in in a week, I'm not happy.
rip out all windows, same fitters, takes exactly 2 weeks to the hour, custard happy, everybody gets paid
what I gather, you have a boss who obviously prices the job and has overheads and needs a profit etc or it goes pear shaped for everybody
You have to work to your bosses expect actions within a time limit, I'm not saying he/she is unreasonable, it's a business with profit in mind
im a subbie, that's my thing and there's a lot of peeps who are in command of their own destiny, sole trader, small med firms etc.
lost at my thread, fleur was on, sexy like Janet Jackson
many years ago I was a window fitter, multi million pound mansion to fit windows. The best team was sent down to fit. Great job well within time, the custard spent £50k on this.
surveyour sent down and company director on completion for hand over. Custard says 2 weeks for the job you done it in in a week, I'm not happy.
rip out all windows, same fitters, takes exactly 2 weeks to the hour, custard happy, everybody gets paid
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tamz
I would always go for quality of work over speed and please don't anyone ever think because someone can do something quicker that you that they are better than you in any way.
I know guys who are "throwing in" 5 x 9 and 10 rad full systems a week and are rarely home after 5 but they cut every corner you can imagine and know they leave shyt work.
I know they are better than that as they worked for me in the past, they are good guys but the companies they work for push speed before anything else.
You never want to turn into that unless needs must. Btw i've done that too and know just about every shortcut and half rsed way to do most things but i choose not to these days.
Your speed will come with experience in more things than plumbing and you will make lots of mistakes while you learn.
I've been doing this a long time now. Done well into the 1000's of heating systems so i really don't need to think about anything except maybe what is for dinner that night. That saves a lot of time.
I know how every type of house, with very few exceptions, are built so know where and where not to try to put pipes.
I don't need to read MI's unless it is something i've never done before so i already know how to get a baxi or whatever to high fire without looking it up (more time saved).
These things are all experience. Thinking takes time and most things to me are now (becoming) boring routine.
I've probably made every mistake most of you can think of in the past and more and got away with it because i grew up in different times where people (customers) weren't so much up their own rses and accepted that mistakes happen.
I've been standing sweeping the water out the back door when the woman walked in the kitchen, asked if i needed wellies and told me to put the kettle on for her and make myself one when i got a minute (you wouldn't get that these days :lol🙂
I know guys who are "throwing in" 5 x 9 and 10 rad full systems a week and are rarely home after 5 but they cut every corner you can imagine and know they leave shyt work.
I know they are better than that as they worked for me in the past, they are good guys but the companies they work for push speed before anything else.
You never want to turn into that unless needs must. Btw i've done that too and know just about every shortcut and half rsed way to do most things but i choose not to these days.
Your speed will come with experience in more things than plumbing and you will make lots of mistakes while you learn.
I've been doing this a long time now. Done well into the 1000's of heating systems so i really don't need to think about anything except maybe what is for dinner that night. That saves a lot of time.
I know how every type of house, with very few exceptions, are built so know where and where not to try to put pipes.
I don't need to read MI's unless it is something i've never done before so i already know how to get a baxi or whatever to high fire without looking it up (more time saved).
These things are all experience. Thinking takes time and most things to me are now (becoming) boring routine.
I've probably made every mistake most of you can think of in the past and more and got away with it because i grew up in different times where people (customers) weren't so much up their own rses and accepted that mistakes happen.
I've been standing sweeping the water out the back door when the woman walked in the kitchen, asked if i needed wellies and told me to put the kettle on for her and make myself one when i got a minute (you wouldn't get that these days :lol🙂
that sums it up for me as well you take ten years after qualifying to be able to do it all on auto pilot but unfortunately just like life you at some point you start to go backwards(born bald and incontinent die bald and incontinent ) and it starts to get harder again i have definately passed the point of no return recently
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mcniven
Hi mate, it was OK returned 2 x boiler changes, it was while we were in the 3rd division also maybe next year it would be worth more, paid for itself, and a little more, good for branding tho!
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Gray0689
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Gray0689
Ash you have been on here from the start of your career and we have seen you come on leaps and bounds
You have a great work ethic and take pride in trying to learn and get better
Your a credit to yourself and anyone looking to get into plumbing should take a leaf out of your book
Well done and keep it up
Thanks. I appreciate it, I still have so much to learn. It's the heating install side of things I enjoy most. Conversion from Y plan, S plan etc to combi such as this I seem to struggle with. Doing the work is ok but I doubt myself and get confused with what connections I need to be making with the heating pipes! Really enjoying things though and I feel as though I have come on a lot. I enjoy the work and I enjoy learning new ways to do things. I'm probably never going to be the quickest but as long as I do it right I'm happy. Thanks for the words of encouragement.
I priced a similar job for 4 days. Its takes just as long to install pipes badly as it does nicely so why rush at it? I'am not the fastest and don't claim to be.
64 year old guy I did my apprenticeship with would work at a slow steady pace and would still be way faster than me when I had a rush on haha
64 year old guy I did my apprenticeship with would work at a slow steady pace and would still be way faster than me when I had a rush on haha
he can have it done in 1day , but he will then need to pay you min £700-£800 labour
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Rickster123
Stan?! I thought you'd been deported! Where you been hiding?
still here Adam , got a brand new pasport from southall for £200 and i am ok for now
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Rickster123
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Rickster123
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Rickster123
How are ya stan? If I don't see you here again for a few weeks merry Christmas to you and the family mate.
merry christmas and happy holidays to all that will read this ::santa3: ho ho ho
i am ok mate , having trouble with my iphone 5s so have to use the laptop to visit my virtual friends 🙂
i am ok mate , having trouble with my iphone 5s so have to use the laptop to visit my virtual friends 🙂
If you can get enough breakdowns its the way to go. And you can do them of course, many out there can't.
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