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Boiler bypass always opening

View the thread, titled "Boiler bypass always opening" which is posted in Central Heating Forum on UK Plumbers Forums.

Hi all - hopefully I can get some answer to a maddening issue. The boiler bypass just refuses to stop letting water through.

Here is the run down. We bought the house last year. It has a Vaillant Ecotec Plus 418 which is only 3 years old. It's on a Y plan, with a hot water cylinder that looks to have been installed at the same time as the boiler - it's very new and a sealed foam type.

When we moved in we had new rads all round and all the microbore removed. The system was powerflushed thoroughly.

The 3 way valve was replaced as it had seized so that's new and works fine.

The pump is a Grundfos Alpha2 15-60 130.

The hot water tank thermostat was not working so was replaced (and works fine).

The whole heating system works well but it's very slow to heat the hot water tank - sometimes over 2 hours, and the boiler keeps going into S46 - Comfort protection, loss of flame.

There is a 15mm bypass from the exit of the pump to the return which had a tacosetter on it set to 11l/h (presumably because the boiler min flow is 10.5).

This has now been replaced with a straight auto bypass which ranges from 0.1 to 0.5 bar.

The ch system has 2 towel rails on it which are always open, and the pump is level with the highest rad. It's a 2 story house, open system with a tank in the roof about 3m above the pump.

Even with the hot water tank calling for heat and the ch circuit on (3 way valve on 'mix') the bypass is still open. It's a brand new valve. This occurs whether the pump is ramped all the way up to 45w or tricking along at 11w. On pp1, or pp2, or even auto (which gives the lowest power) of fixed at I, II or II it's the same.

It makes no sense. Even with ch and hw calling for heat, a good few trvs open and the 2 towel rails, and the pump on its minimum setting, water is still getting though the bypass even if it's ramped all the way up to 0.5 bar.

I have tried running the pump at 45w and shutting off the stopcocks to the ch and hw tank to force water though the bypass at a good rate in case it was blocked by something, but no solution.

Any ideas?
 
By the way if it's been on hot water only (roasting hot bypass pipe) and I boost the heating the pipe then goes cold immediately because the cold water from the heating system starts going around the system and straight through the bypass valve as well. This even happens with the pump on its lowest setting - I
 
What is the ABV (index) set to to?? If its set to max of 5 then the Alpha2 on CC1 or CC2, 1.0M & 3.0M or PP1 or PP2 at 2.0M & 3.0M cannot cause it to bypass, it may have some crap under the valve seat.
What make/model is the ABV.?

1744704470696.png
 
What is the ABV (index) set to to?? If its set to max of 5 then the Alpha2 on CC1 or CC2, 1.0M & 3.0M or PP1 or PP2 at 2.0M & 3.0M cannot cause it to bypass, it may have some crap under the valve seat.
What make/model is the ABV.?

View attachment 96036
Thanks so much for coming back - great forum! However, I have solved the issue. It was driving me so mad I drained a little off the system, split the bypass and put in an isolation valve. When I ran it all up again the whole bypass pipe got hot EXCEPT the short length between the ABV and the isolator. Heat must have been passing up the pipes from the feed and the return sides and heating the pipes. By adding the isolator I created a situation which PROVED the ABV was closed, otherwise that short section would be hot as well. As soon as I opened the isolator the short middle bit got hot - the only explanation being it is heat being carried from the return end. At least I know now!
 
Hi all - hopefully I can get some answer to a maddening issue. The boiler bypass just refuses to stop letting water through.

Here is the run down. We bought the house last year. It has a Vaillant Ecotec Plus 418 which is only 3 years old. It's on a Y plan, with a hot water cylinder that looks to have been installed at the same time as the boiler - it's very new and a sealed foam type.

When we moved in we had new rads all round and all the microbore removed. The system was powerflushed thoroughly.

The 3 way valve was replaced as it had seized so that's new and works fine.

The pump is a Grundfos Alpha2 15-60 130.

The hot water tank thermostat was not working so was replaced (and works fine).

The whole heating system works well but it's very slow to heat the hot water tank - sometimes over 2 hours, and the boiler keeps going into S46 - Comfort protection, loss of flame.

There is a 15mm bypass from the exit of the pump to the return which had a tacosetter on it set to 11l/h (presumably because the boiler min flow is 10.5).

This has now been replaced with a straight auto bypass which ranges from 0.1 to 0.5 bar.

The ch system has 2 towel rails on it which are always open, and the pump is level with the highest rad. It's a 2 story house, open system with a tank in the roof about 3m above the pump.

Even with the hot water tank calling for heat and the ch circuit on (3 way valve on 'mix') the bypass is still open. It's a brand new valve. This occurs whether the pump is ramped all the way up to 45w or tricking along at 11w. On pp1, or pp2, or even auto (which gives the lowest power) of fixed at I, II or II it's the same.

It makes no sense. Even with ch and hw calling for heat, a good few trvs open and the 2 towel rails, and the pump on its minimum setting, water is still getting though the bypass even if it's ramped all the way up to 0.5 bar.

I have tried running the pump at 45w and shutting off the stopcocks to the ch and hw tank to force water though the bypass at a good rate in case it was blocked by something, but no solution.

Any ideas?

I don't think this is a by-pass problem. Unless every radiator/towel rail is fitted with a TRV, a by-pass valve is not normally required as the Y Plan valve can only divert the pump flow, not shut it off. You can confirm this by temporarily isolating the bypass and seeing if the hot water recovery rate improves. I don't think it will.

If the heating works ok, then there is no problem with the pump.

The problem is that the boiler is probably going to "S46 - Comfort protection" because the hot water primary circuit is unable to dissipate enough heat into the cylinder. The boiler is effectively switching itself off. There are a number of reasons for this:

1) There is a blockage (air or sludge, etc) severely restricting the flow. (Check/fit air vents and/or blast sludge from circuit, including cylinder coils.)
2) The hot water primary regulating valve (if fitted) is practically closed. (Check and make sure it is sufficiently open.)
3) The coil inside the cylinder is badly coated with lime scale preventing an efficient heat transfer. (Try to visually confirm through the immersion heater boss and if necessary, replace hot water cylinder.)

Hope that helps.
 
I don't think this is a by-pass problem. Unless every radiator/towel rail is fitted with a TRV, a by-pass valve is not normally required as the Y Plan valve can only divert the pump flow, not shut it off. You can confirm this by temporarily isolating the bypass and seeing if the hot water recovery rate improves. I don't think it will.

If the heating works ok, then there is no problem with the pump.

The problem is that the boiler is probably going to "S46 - Comfort protection" because the hot water primary circuit is unable to dissipate enough heat into the cylinder. The boiler is effectively switching itself off. There are a number of reasons for this:

1) There is a blockage (air or sludge, etc) severely restricting the flow. (Check/fit air vents and/or blast sludge from circuit, including cylinder coils.)
2) The hot water primary regulating valve (if fitted) is practically closed. (Check and make sure it is sufficiently open.)
3) The coil inside the cylinder is badly coated with lime scale preventing an efficient heat transfer. (Try to visually confirm through the immersion heater boss and if necessary, replace hot water cylinder.)

Hope that helps.
 
Cheers for this. Tank coil has a bleed valve so it's not that. Could be limescale, though it's not old. Hard water area though. It was all power flushed but whether he did the tank circuit or not i don't know. I know it's not the ABV though if you look at my other reply. I don't know if there is a primary regulator valve...
 
Thanks so much for coming back - great forum! However, I have solved the issue. It was driving me so mad I drained a little off the system, split the bypass and put in an isolation valve. When I ran it all up again the whole bypass pipe got hot EXCEPT the short length between the ABV and the isolator. Heat must have been passing up the pipes from the feed and the return sides and heating the pipes. By adding the isolator I created a situation which PROVED the ABV was closed, otherwise that short section would be hot as well. As soon as I opened the isolator the short middle bit got hot - the only explanation being it is heat being carried from the return end. At least I know now!
Can you just draw a simple schematic including that ABV and the isolating valve you have installed.
 

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