Boiler plus what you doing ?

[dan_the_plumber]

Shaun, after the 5 years or so I’ve been on your forum. I have finally had enough. There are a few people on here (who seem to comment on just about every post) who I would really rather not converse with. Please put me out of my misery and close my account. Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Shaun, after the 5 years or so I’ve been on your forum. I have finally had enough. There are a few people on here (who seem to comment on just about every post) who I would really rather not converse with. Please put me out of my misery and close my account. Thanks

Wouldn't it be easier to ignore those who you don't find to have appropriate replys ?

You can pm any issues if you want

 

[Harvest Fields]

Shaun, after the 5 years or so I’ve been on your forum. I have finally had enough. There are a few people on here (who seem to comment on just about every post) who I would really rather not converse with. Please put me out of my misery and close my account. Thanks

I have never had a conversation with you until today. Sorry I have clearly upset you. As I have said before it was simply a bit of light hearted banter. You are entitled to your opinion. Once again I apologise

 

[JLS]

So......boiler plus regulations. Why does a condensing boiler not meet the Flue gas recovery requirement sufficiently? I've been looking online for the actual regs but have so far only found links to third party sites that just repeat the same guidelines

 

[dan_the_plumber]

I have never had a conversation with you until today. Sorry I have clearly upset you. As I have said before it was simply a bit of light hearted banter. You are entitled to your opinion. Once again I apologise

Ok well I appreciate that. It’s not like I can’t take a joke. It just keeps happening. The level of respect I would expect is just not there.
For example I posted a few months back about measuring POC on inset decorative gas fires. ‘Masons’ spoke to me in a way that I thought was offensive. Then Shaun backed him all the way. Unbelievable, I was insensed.
Anyway I would like to stay but if this sort of thing is what I can expect then I’ll just have to delight another group with my witty professional banter 🙂

 

[dan_the_plumber]

So....boiler plus regulations. Why does a condensing boiler not meet the Flue gas recovery requirement sufficiently? I've been looking online for the actual regs but have so far only found links to third party sites that just repeat the same guidelines

Check out the latest updates to building regs Part L, also the central heating compliance guide 🙂

 

[Harvest Fields]

Ok well I appreciate that. It’s not like I can’t take a joke. It just keeps happening. The level of respect I would expect is just not there.
For example I posted a few months back about measuring POC on inset decorative gas fires. ‘Masons’ spoke to me in a way that I thought was offensive. Then Shaun backed him all the way. Unbelievable, I was insensed.
Anyway I would like to stay but if this sort of thing is what I can expect then I’ll just have to delight another group with my witty professional banter 🙂

I will keep it in mind not be so forward.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Wouldn't it be easier to ignore those who you don't find to have appropriate replys ?

You can pm any issues if you want

Well Harvest Fields has been very nice about things and I do very much appreciate that.
However Shaun, as you should know already. I have a problem with you thinking that you don’t have to adhere to building regs. I mean it doesn’t look very good for the forum, when the main admin dismisses the rules in a flippant manor.
Look mate I’m not the regs police, far from it. I’d just ask you to consider it next time you make a false declaration on your benchmark form.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Well Harvest Fields has been very nice about things and I do very much appreciate that.
However Shaun, as you should know already. I have a problem with you thinking that you don’t have to adhere to building regs. I mean it doesn’t look very good for the forum, when the main admin dismisses the rules in a flippant manor.
Look mate I’m not the regs police, far from it. I’d just ask you to consider it next time you make a false declaration on your benchmark form.

Not regs in Wales or Scotland yet only England 😉

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Not regs in Wales or Scotland yet only England 😉

Yes I do know that Shaun. Where are you then?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes I do know that Shaun. Where are you then?

North wales

 

[dan_the_plumber]

North wales

I see 🙂

 

[Alastair Davis]

So....boiler plus regulations. Why does a condensing boiler not meet the Flue gas recovery requirement sufficiently? I've been looking online for the actual regs but have so far only found links to third party sites that just repeat the same guidelines

I found this:

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../attachment_data/file/697525/DBSCG_secure.pdf


I'm a little confused on this one too. Can anyone please educate me.

As of 2005 all new installations are required to be condensing boilers. In essence I believe these work by using the flue gas to heat the return flow prior to it reaching the heat exchanger, and so that the boiler can then modulate to a lower temperature, using less gas.

• Is this not classed as 'Flue gas heat recovery'? (see 2.2)
• If it isn't then whats the difference? (can't find an answer online!)
• And if it is the same, is this point then not pointless?

Thanks in advance
Ali

 

[Martyn2]

I found this:

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../attachment_data/file/697525/DBSCG_secure.pdf


I'm a little confused on this one too. Can anyone please educate me.

As of 2005 all new installations are required to be condensing boilers. In essence I believe these work by using the flue gas to heat the return flow prior to it reaching the heat exchanger, and so that the boiler can then modulate to a lower temperature, using less gas.

• Is this not classed as 'Flue gas heat recovery'? (see 2.2)
• If it isn't then whats the difference? (can't find an answer online!)
• And if it is the same, is this point then not pointless?

Thanks in advance
Ali

Actually looked a bit further into this and what it actually means is that flue gas heat recovery must operate in HW mode. Google boiler-plus-final-policy-and-consultation

 

[Alastair Davis]

Actually looked a bit further into this and what it actually means is that flue gas heat recovery must operate in HW mode. Google boiler-plus-final-policy-and-consultation

Hey Martyn, cheers for that. It firms it up better.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...us_final_policy_and_consultation_response.pdf

(page 32)

Just out of interest, do many boiler manufacturers supply this functionality as standard and/or as an add on within condensing combi's? (i'm new to the industry and am currently studying!)

Cheers

 

[Allgoode]

Add on to flue of boiler.

Alpha used to do it, Ideal did it with ideal logic esp code boilers, Atag do it on there IC economiser combi's which i would like for my own place.

Basically they scavenge most of the remaining latent heat out of the condensate & essentially used that heat to pre-heat the incoming mains cold water to the combi.

Makes sense & improves efficiency.

Also if used in addition to weather comp & load compensation you will have got as efficient a boiler as is currently possible with technology available today.

Examples below -

Vaillant Heat Recovery Device recoFLUE PFGHRD | Ancillaries

WORCESTER Ecoflo Flue Gas Heat Recovery Unit 7733600047 - New inc VAT | eBay

Baxi & Potterton Multifit GasSaver - GS1 720056901

Hope this helps,

Andy

 

[Harvest Fields]

Hideous and all massively expensive

 

[Allgoode]

I agree, unless it comes integral with boiler, aka the ATAG IC economiser at the right price. (I cant get one direct from them as i don't install enough boilers & am willing to travel to see rep on his next trip down to the south west).............
Then it makes sense.
Otherwise as mentioned above by Harvest they are certainly fugly & you would not recoup the costs during the boiler life cycle.

 

[Old Account]

Hideous and all massively expensive

Not just this what about the space 🙂 wouldn’t like a boiler taking 3/4 Of the kitchen

 

[CHRISX]

Hello All,

Further to my previous messages on this subject Today I found some `very good news` from Baxi on Boiler Plus Regulations compliance:

Hopefully this new development from Baxi will help Baxi Combi Boiler Installers to comply with the new `Boiler Plus` additional Controls Regulations - it is an `easy fit` Air temperature sensor which clips onto Baxi Combi Boiler Flue terminals with the wire runs through the Air intake duct into the Boiler:

Boiler Plus and IFOS

Here are the fitting instructions:

http://trade.baxi.co.uk/documents/7687799_IFOS_Omnibus.pdf

Product Information Sheets:

http://trade.baxi.co.uk/documents/DEPT_242618_Baxi_IFOS_uSense_2ppA5Leaflet_rev4_OUTPUT.pdf

Looking at the device picture in the Fitting Instructions I cannot imagine that it will be an expensive item [?].

I am guessing that it will be `inexpensive` when compared to other options to comply with `Boiler Plus` such as Flue Gas Heat Recovery Units which can cost between about £400.00 and £1000.00 installed - ruling them out of most Installers preferred options.

Even the `Smart Thermostat` option costs over £200.00 without `Smart Trv`s` added at probably £60.00 each to give a more complete `Smart Heating System Control`.

I know that Smart Trv`s or even basic Trv`s are not included in the Boiler Plus Regulations [unless Radiators are being replaced] but if I were having a `Smart Thermostat` fitted I would have one that communicated with Smart Trv`s and also install the Trv`s.

I can imagine that because it enables compliance with the Boiler Plus Regulations at a cost that I expect to be very reasonable [?] this product will give a massive boost to sales of Baxi Combi Boilers until other Boiler Manufacturers produce a similar product - unless Baxi`s patent is specific enough to prevent others copying the device ?

Although it is an `Air Temperature Sensor for a Baxi Combi Boiler flue` I am guessing that their patent would not prevent other Combi Boiler Manufacturers from producing something slightly different in design ?

I hope that Members will find this helpful although it would mean installing Baxi Combination Boilers to use this option to coply with the `Boiler Plus` Regulations.

Regards,

Chris

 

[Matt0029]

If the customer or landlord refuses to have an additional controls fitted to meet the boiler plus regulations, were does the engineer stand?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If the customer or landlord refuses to have an additional controls fitted to meet the boiler plus regulations, were does the engineer stand?

Can't install the boiler but I'm not loosing out so get them to sign a waver

 

[Matt0029]

If they sign a wavier saying you have instructed them that new controls are required so the install meets the boiler plus regulations. But the landlord has refused is the engineer filling out the benchmark covered?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would say so as the customer wants what he wants

 

[CHRISX]

Hello All,

I hope that this is not breaking any Forum regulations as the Videos are informative and definitely relevant to `Boiler Plus` / this thread.

Further to my previous messages on this thread about adhering to the new `Boiler Plus` regulations I thought that Members might be interested in these 2 Videos.

One is about the Installation process for the Baxi `In Flue Outdoor Temperature Sensor` to a Baxi Combi Boiler here:

The other is about the Installation process for the `Nest Learning Thermostat 3rd series` to the same Baxi Combi Boiler here:

I hope that these Videos will be helpful to some Members.

Regards,

Chris