I recently fitted a boiler for a new customer landlord in a new property hes bought. we agreed on a price on completion of job but he had to leave half way through the job leaving his labourer at the property. When i was about to finish the labourer got a call from his boss saying he wasnt going to be back and to send him my bank details over and hed pay me that day. Its been a week now and he keeps saying he will send me the money that day or the day after but still nothing. This is the first Time this has happened to me how do i go about getting payment from this person.
- Thread starter got_any03
- Start date
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
D
Dotty
I think it doesn't matter too much what agreement you have in writing, if any, because if he decides not to pay you then it's Small Claims Court as last resort.
Just keep asking for the money politely & send an invoice & further statements if not paid.
Just keep asking for the money politely & send an invoice & further statements if not paid.
R
Rickster123
Do you have an address for him? Go and see him face to face. Far harder for him to bluff you off in person.
R
Ray Stafford
R
Rickster123
W
walterwhite
I always get a 50% deposit upfront which mitigates the risk. Not much you can do in this situation other than small claims court as suggested....but even if you win, you might not get all your money. Having a contract signed, as Croppie suggests, tends to focus the customer and you're less likely to get the crooked customer. Good luck.
D
Dotty
Something you said earlier just leapt out at me.
I take it you've got your own gas registration and insurances? And that you declare this work?
This could be something he'd have you over a barrel over.....
I take it you've got your own gas registration and insurances? And that you declare this work?
This could be something he'd have you over a barrel over.....
P
PlumbBobBob
phone him from outside his home say you're coming round in half an hour, give it five minutes and knock the door unless of course he's not in lol
The benefits of oil boilers having an external fire valve. No pay and somehow the firevalve trips and a call that the boiler isnt working. A quick no problem, be there at some point and oh by the way whilst im there you can pay me and oh by the way its an extra 50 for coming to look at the boiler 🙂
As said its only been a week , i wouldnt panic yet, but defo keep on his case.....if meters outside, cap it !
Go round to his house, knock on the door and politely head butt him in the nose, pull him outside and kick him round the street a few times until he's bleeding heavily, shove a can of expanding foam up his ....car exhaust and down his flue pipe, then relax and wait for the cops.......or seeing as it's only been a week give him a bit more time, ring him politely and tell him your accounts are due this week and you need payment to satisfy the merchants. Most people pay up given a bit of time.
D
Dotty
UKPF does not, on the whole, recommend that you headbutt the pleb. This post actually scares us and we implore that Goz seeks professional help. .....
Unfortunately, as you've not got a contract, and therefore you've given no cooling off period, the small claims court won't rule in your favour as its illegal to fail to give the notice of cooling off period under the doorstep selling regulations. The only exemption in this case from the DSR's is if the customer has called in to your office and booked you to come and do the job from there. If you've gone to him, either by his request or otherwise, the law isn't on your side. The other exemption is if the whole job is under £35 plus vat, but that's unlikely in almost all cases.
The DSR's are a pain, and you should always give the written cooling off period and if you ever need to start the work within the COP, you must get a form signed, called an opt-out form.
The DSR's are a pain, and you should always give the written cooling off period and if you ever need to start the work within the COP, you must get a form signed, called an opt-out form.
The contract must include a cooling off period, or its not enforceable in court. Your local authority will advise more on this, and the FMB have a section on their website where you can download sample forms to comply with the doorstep selling regulations.
C
CJH
Hope you get paid, without a contract your a little tied but not totally screwed id say allow up to 28 days for payment then report back and on to the next step.
Good luck
Good luck
Update. Ive had no contact from landlord since sunday wont answer my calls or text. Ive rang him off ofher numbers somebody else answered fobbed me off saying hed ring me back but didnt. Does anybody know the position on gaining access to remove boiler if there is a tenant living in there or not.
D
Dotty
Your removing it from someone else's property your snookered son
start money claims if i was you
Or option b expanding foam down flue
start money claims if i was you
Or option b expanding foam down flue
R
Rickster123
Or option 3 get in rip it out and get out quickly. Fastest option is to not isolate the supply's.
Have you got any emails & texts & other communication from him? Keep all this & get it all in print.
He asked you to do the job & was there for a while as you worked. The labourer would be a witness.
I would suspect the Small Claims court would look favourably on you. He has not paid you any money so far & he would have to alledge that there was faulty workmanship- which he would have to prove in court. A contract can be verbal. It simply requires an agreed job at an agreed reward. Only real problem with a verbal contract is proving it. Did anyone witness you giving a price etc?
Try getting the landlord to reply to your texts & he might say the wrong thing & hang himself.
Small claims is a straightforward process
He asked you to do the job & was there for a while as you worked. The labourer would be a witness.
I would suspect the Small Claims court would look favourably on you. He has not paid you any money so far & he would have to alledge that there was faulty workmanship- which he would have to prove in court. A contract can be verbal. It simply requires an agreed job at an agreed reward. Only real problem with a verbal contract is proving it. Did anyone witness you giving a price etc?
Try getting the landlord to reply to your texts & he might say the wrong thing & hang himself.
Small claims is a straightforward process
Difficult one, but if you still have a key & remove the boiler providing the place is unoccupied, then it's your word against the landlord owner. After all, - you are not finished the install & you have decided the boiler is not the right one! :wink:
Brilliant! That's evidence. Don't wipe them. Get them on print - yours & his communication.
D
Dotty
Because, technically, it's now part of the building.
I'm not saying it's right but it is what it is....
Unsure if it has changed but back in the days of squatters rights a "fixing" was anything secured via a nail.
Anything screwed was fair game.
Unfortunately you are neither a squatter nor living in 1807. So down the legal channel. The texts should be enough to secure a ruling in your favour but you must behave and keep everything professional
Anything screwed was fair game.
Unfortunately you are neither a squatter nor living in 1807. So down the legal channel. The texts should be enough to secure a ruling in your favour but you must behave and keep everything professional
Put in the legal letter your intent to place an order on his property if payment cannot be made. And once an order is placed you could force a sail of the property to settle the debt.
Years ago ago this wouldn't of been able to happen but I believe there is a case recently where this happened over £1200 or as close as
Years ago ago this wouldn't of been able to happen but I believe there is a case recently where this happened over £1200 or as close as
D
drip-dry
block condensate....
do not mess about if you have a key,empty or not,go in cap gas safely,under cap leaving note saying boiler removed as not paid for the next fitter to see and remove boiler and wait from call from landlord,he pays in advance or let him go else were,do not hang around ,the longer you leave,the worse it could get...if you get caught in property by police and explain ,all that will happen is you will be asked to leave,this is a civil mater and they do not want to get involved,this has only happened to me once in a lot of years,i scaled the scaffolding at night ,entered flat and removed boiler and dropped it by rope out of fourth floor window..the landlord rang with threats and rants,nothing happened as he is not going to take me to court ,as he was trying to pull a fast one and as said police not interested as civil matter
basically sit on ya but and let the landlord take the p..ss or act now..if you do not forget it ..you have paid for a nice new boiler for him....
do not mess about if you have a key,empty or not,go in cap gas safely,under cap leaving note saying boiler removed as not paid for the next fitter to see and remove boiler and wait from call from landlord,he pays in advance or let him go else were,do not hang around ,the longer you leave,the worse it could get...if you get caught in property by police and explain ,all that will happen is you will be asked to leave,this is a civil mater and they do not want to get involved,this has only happened to me once in a lot of years,i scaled the scaffolding at night ,entered flat and removed boiler and dropped it by rope out of fourth floor window..the landlord rang with threats and rants,nothing happened as he is not going to take me to court ,as he was trying to pull a fast one and as said police not interested as civil matter
basically sit on ya but and let the landlord take the p..ss or act now..if you do not forget it ..you have paid for a nice new boiler for him....
D
drip-dry
remove boiler,fit it on another job ..all good...all you have lost is a bot of labour...not a £1000 boiler..mine was a worcester...i could not stand that..wait to long and you lose your advantage..hard but this os the real world
stop thinking about the money you gain once paid start thinking about your loses when he carries on not to pay
stop thinking about the money you gain once paid start thinking about your loses when he carries on not to pay
i would be straight in there if i had the key.it would take about 15 minutes to take back what you have paid for he is a lousy crook.also contact gassafe they should cancel the certificate.
L
lame plumber
him not paying is a civil matter, you removing the boiler becomes a criminal matter and the police can and will take action if your caught, against you. The law can be an bum!!
Just get a solicitor involved.
Its going to cost you, but you have no choice.
Get the solicitor to write a letter and show transcripts of the text messages.
He may pay you if he feels that he doesn't have a leg to stand on if it goes to court.
Next time... provide a written quote with payment terms explained and get them to sign it.
And get a % of the cost of the job as a deposit.
It makes it so much easier for you in court if you have these basic things in place.
I know - I was in court 3 times last year for much the same thing
Its going to cost you, but you have no choice.
Get the solicitor to write a letter and show transcripts of the text messages.
He may pay you if he feels that he doesn't have a leg to stand on if it goes to court.
Next time... provide a written quote with payment terms explained and get them to sign it.
And get a % of the cost of the job as a deposit.
It makes it so much easier for you in court if you have these basic things in place.
I know - I was in court 3 times last year for much the same thing
K
kirkgas
Try this,
Text him and say "don't worry about the invoice, I've been back and broke in, took the boiler but forgot to put the water off, the place is flooded, too bad,"
Then wait outside the property he's sure to appear as quick as he can, then at least you can get him face to face to say, pay me or let me take the boiler back, or if not this will happen for real, just don't text him a second time to say it's done, if you are asked about the first text, it was just a wind up wasn't it
Text him and say "don't worry about the invoice, I've been back and broke in, took the boiler but forgot to put the water off, the place is flooded, too bad,"
Then wait outside the property he's sure to appear as quick as he can, then at least you can get him face to face to say, pay me or let me take the boiler back, or if not this will happen for real, just don't text him a second time to say it's done, if you are asked about the first text, it was just a wind up wasn't it
i have done this twas about five year ago , done a repair on a baxi pump had gone ping invoiced the cust (knew him through a mate) never got paid .
He claimed boiler still never worked so wasn't paying even tho i found out he was lying (same mate told me)
Waited a few weeks then went out disc in meter , my friend told me he was furious as he called out another engineer who charged him to take a disc out lol
J
julesverne
cooling off period only applies to consumers(joe public)
landlord is classed as business so this shouldnt be an issue if you take him to court. but if you have the key get a copy. take boiler out kick the door in to make it look like a burglary. deny all knowedge
snap the door lock , go in , remove the boiler , change the locks and before you leave put a plug in the sink and block the overflow and open taps, lock the doors on your way out and drop the keys down a gutter somewhere...... didn't force yourself in did you!!! house is still locked, and the key you have don't open it!! so how could it be you??
All I can say - from experience - is that as soon as you get vindictive or malicious, you are stuffed.
If you enter, try to enter, remove your property, cause any damage to the property and are caught, seen by anyone, you will end up in front of a Judge.
The Judge will look at what you tried / attempted to do, damaged, or in the eyes of the Law, stolen from the property.
He will not care about you not being paid because that is not a criminal issue!
You will become liable for the repair of the damage caused by you and probably have to replace the boiler if you managed to remove it.
I know a Plumber who did this, it has cost him a small fortune and he has ended up with 3 criminal convictions out of the saga.
Give the Landlord another couple of weeks to pay, but I would get your Solicitor to start the ball rolling.
And next time - try and protect yourself prior to starting any work for anyone
Oz
If you enter, try to enter, remove your property, cause any damage to the property and are caught, seen by anyone, you will end up in front of a Judge.
The Judge will look at what you tried / attempted to do, damaged, or in the eyes of the Law, stolen from the property.
He will not care about you not being paid because that is not a criminal issue!
You will become liable for the repair of the damage caused by you and probably have to replace the boiler if you managed to remove it.
I know a Plumber who did this, it has cost him a small fortune and he has ended up with 3 criminal convictions out of the saga.
Give the Landlord another couple of weeks to pay, but I would get your Solicitor to start the ball rolling.
And next time - try and protect yourself prior to starting any work for anyone
Oz
D
Dotty
Completely agree. As a responsible forum we cannot be seen to be condoning any activities that could potentially lead you up before the beak.
Play it cleverly.
Play it cleverly.
I wouldn't want to condone breaking the law, but depending on circumstances, there can be times when you could remove the boiler & not be breaking the law.
Those circumstances might be, if you still have a key & the house is still unoccupied.
Landlord has ignored your calls & broke several agreements verbal & texted.
I would have no qualms about going to the empty property with witnesses & take a film of entire event while you have the boiler removed carefully causing no damage & all pipework left & capped.
If he didn't order you to stay away from the property then you have done nothing wrong. As I said earlier, job wasn't finished because landlord failed to honour his agreement of bringing funding.
I would enjoy taking the boiler out & leaving him without it, I must admit
Those circumstances might be, if you still have a key & the house is still unoccupied.
Landlord has ignored your calls & broke several agreements verbal & texted.
I would have no qualms about going to the empty property with witnesses & take a film of entire event while you have the boiler removed carefully causing no damage & all pipework left & capped.
If he didn't order you to stay away from the property then you have done nothing wrong. As I said earlier, job wasn't finished because landlord failed to honour his agreement of bringing funding.
I would enjoy taking the boiler out & leaving him without it, I must admit
K
kirkgas
D
Dotty
How will this help him?
I think any and all advice from LVG should be dismissed as folly.
Keep pestering him if you think hes fobbing you off. Tell him, as the house owner you need to show him how the system works before you can sign it off. Hope you get sorted. Try asking for at least 50% on arrival with boiler. Anyone who wont lay out that much probabley doesn't want to pay.
J
Jimmy73
Sounds the best way.. face him face to face to see what he has to say first.. 90% of the time they will cough up then!
As Drain Medic suggested - you are wrong, these days, As this is an open forum, i won't expand on DM's points.
However, as the customer is a landdlord,then I would suggest this falls outside the DSR , as it is B2B
It is madness not having a signed contract, especially for a new client - and a Land lord at that!
If that is true, then the law must be very strange. That would mean he needs a signed contract, yet a verbal contact (which is same thing) is not accepted in law with a landlord/owner?
Obviously everyone is better with a signed contract. But if you think of a lot of examples where a customer suddenly needs a boiler replaced, - you quote them, they agree & you fit it straight away. Doesn't give much cooling off period or even for sorting out a contract. I never do one, but should with some people
Lets hope he gets reimbursed.
update.
ive been round to the property that i fitted the boiler in to try and gain access but it was all locked up. The house is now under a letting agency and am wondering if contacting them will help me in getting my money back. As the addres that i was given for the landlord is fake as the houses dont even go up as high as the number i was given. Also still no contact from landlord. How will the agency respond to the boiler not being registered with gas safe and the cp12 being void as the address fake.
ive been round to the property that i fitted the boiler in to try and gain access but it was all locked up. The house is now under a letting agency and am wondering if contacting them will help me in getting my money back. As the addres that i was given for the landlord is fake as the houses dont even go up as high as the number i was given. Also still no contact from landlord. How will the agency respond to the boiler not being registered with gas safe and the cp12 being void as the address fake.
D
Dotty
Sort it ASAP now mate, don't wait any longer. This same thing happened to me with a builder and his famous footballer mate, I put the boiler in and pipework and handed him the invoice. He asked me for a homeowner certificate to include the new boiler and Corgi number so he could go to the bank to release more money as the build was being done in stages.
I gave him (stupidly) what he asked for and he gave me a £200 deposit, I never saw anything else, within a month the house was finished, up for sale and locked up secure. Wish I'd done something quicker but believed he would come through eventually but neither the builder or the fckuballer did.
K
kirkgas
If you have fitted a new boiler there's no requirement for a LGSC, so the agent won't care, and they won't help you identify their client the landlord
PS the kicker for you is you will get into bother forgot registering it, so again the agent won't care as it's the landlords duty to ensure the installer has registered it, doesn't stop the place being rented
PS the kicker for you is you will get into bother forgot registering it, so again the agent won't care as it's the landlords duty to ensure the installer has registered it, doesn't stop the place being rented
Last edited by a moderator:
Wonder if you worked your way in with the agents staff would someone pass you the real details of the landlord? Try it & see what happens.
I guess that is technically illegal, but so is stealing off tradespeople imo.
I guess that is technically illegal, but so is stealing off tradespeople imo.
Last edited:
M
Masood
Go to the lettings agent posing as a prospective tenant. Try and get an unaccompanied viewing. If they give you the keys, you're in and not trespassing.
Although what you can do once you're is very limited. You cannot take the boiler off the wall, that's criminal damage I believe. If you cap the meter, the agency will just send their own gas engineer in to investigate.
Your only option really is to look through Land Registry records to get owner's details. It should have been recorded when the property was last bought, who the buyer was and their address.
Although what you can do once you're is very limited. You cannot take the boiler off the wall, that's criminal damage I believe. If you cap the meter, the agency will just send their own gas engineer in to investigate.
Your only option really is to look through Land Registry records to get owner's details. It should have been recorded when the property was last bought, who the buyer was and their address.
Last edited by a moderator:
... and ask the landlords name & details of the agent because you are so impressed with the place & the new boiler work & would like to rent other properties he might have! :grin:
As Masood says, go to land registry and pay £4 to get the name and address of the owner of the property.
https://eservices.landregistry.gov....jDwsjM3MDTxN3dyNDUNMjQ1MjPWDU_P0c6McFQH3SLFU/
https://eservices.landregistry.gov....jDwsjM3MDTxN3dyNDUNMjQ1MjPWDU_P0c6McFQH3SLFU/
I might be wrong but if he has given you a false invoice address then is he not committing fraud?
Do as stussy says and get his details and then I would start legal proceedings against him.
Don't go down the vendetta route as if you get caught then you will be the one in trouble not him.
Do as stussy says and get his details and then I would start legal proceedings against him.
Don't go down the vendetta route as if you get caught then you will be the one in trouble not him.
Edited this cos I've said too much and don't want to get the lad in trouble. What one person would do doesn't suit everyone.
Last edited:
W
woodytheplumber
personally in the past I have got a couple of mates who are very keen gym goers in some of my embroidered tshirts and for some reason they usually pay up there and then only helps if you know were the blokes premises are though
- Jun 28, 2007
- 3,088
- 1,253
- 113
- Member Type
- DIY or Homeowner
Don't mind me while I reply to a few of the threads. We need the new thread pages to be picked up correctly. If this thread isn't current, just visit the plumbing forum and post your own new thread or checkout the other existing threads.
Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk
Similar plumbing topics
- Question
We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.
