DIYER Lost all radiators but 2

[Jim20]

Hi, I am probably your worst knightmare, I DIYER with little knowlege, trying to do things himself.

The problem that I have is that I none of my radiators to the downstairs are working.

I have been fitting out a new bathroom, repositioned bath, sink and toilet, all successfully.
The weekend just gone, I partially drained the cental heating system, and T-ed into the hot and cold rad feed for my towel warmer and under floor heating. The underfloor heating is not in yet.

As I am a bit tight and had not long cleaned and added Inhubator to the sytem, I had collected the water, and poured it back into the expansion tank. Bleed the radiators, but found that the downstairs radiators were still cold. The towel warmer was working fine.

I have since tried turning off the working radiators to force the cold ones into life - no luck
I have checked the pump, athough a little noisey currently, was spinning freely, and I jabbed my screwdriver in, and was able to stop it on the slow setting. I assume fine.
I have now fully drained the system, (collected) and refilled (poured back into the expansion tank), bleed radiators, starting at the ground floor, furthest away, only to find that I have now lost one of the upstairs radiators, and the towel warmer, which is up high on the wall.

I am thinking blockage, or there is a very very very slim chance, something that has been playing on my mind, that I may have connected the hot feed to the cold feed when adding the new connections !

The system is a 1980's construction, vented with expansion tank in the loft, hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard, and 1980's baxi gas boiler. Oh yes original skirting board radiators to the living and dining room. - Thy are a bit poor, and as far as I am aware I cannot bleed them. - next job on the list fit 2 large vert rads in living room - Its North facing, huge window and never seems to get warm enough.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, before I throw away my plumbers hat, and call in a professional.

Jim20

 

[Jim20]

pumps do fail if they are pumping air for the night.
i would look at an airlock, then call in a pro.

Water did come out of the pump when I loosened the bleed screw. but I assume an airlock further along would restrict water to the pump. Thanks

 

[dontknowitall]

Pumps can be faulty whether water comes out of them or not - especially if you impale them with screwdrivers ...

 

[Jim20]

Pumps can be faulty whether water comes out of them or not - especially if you impale them with screwdrivers ...

The impaling was gentle, and no pumps were hurt in this experiment

 

[REDSAW]

they dont like it up them!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i once got impaled in the hand with a scissors then a few weeks later a steak knife bloody hurt and all and was a bit messy claret everywhere,anyway you should not impale pumps the standard worked fine for years design is being outlawed in jan as being to red or something stupid like that

 

[dontknowitall]

Well I suppose if the pump is fine then you could try changing the zone valve.

 

[Koogatubac]

This is just HILARIOUS!! Never heard someone pouring old CH water back in 😀

Pure comedy 🙂

 

[petercj]

If you've let the water run through to flush the system out, refill and start up, and let the heating run for a while. If it's an air lock it might clear itself after running for a while.

 

[Jim20]

The weekend plan is to give it a flush, try and clear any airlocks, and if still no luck look for a plumber.
Thanks for the odd bit of advice, between the mickey taking and laughter !
I

 

[Dylan Nelson]

You state that you saved the water and refilled the system and all downstairs radiators stopped working, then you repeat this and you lose an upstairs rad...are you sure you are putting all the water back in..have you spilt some whilst transporting it...also if ur ball valves stuck it wont release any water to top ur system up...could be something simple..fill your system properly stop being a tight ar*e or u could end up paying more in the end !!

 

[Resolute]

Have you definitely poured the water back into the right tank?

 

[Kyle87]

Have you definitely poured the water back into the right tank?

Is the gold fish dead

 

[Jim20]

No goldfish, so right tank.
FE Tank is full and Ball valve working fine.
Just checked the Zone valves,and they seemed fine.
I have checked the joints that I did the work, pipes are hot. (one hot, one warm, flow and return I assume)
But I connected 2 flexis off my T's from the main radiator loop to bend round into the airing cupboard to connect to my Towel Warmer which hangs on the back of this wall, and these seem cold, and a little soft. Which hints to me that this may be part of the blockage.


Going to empty system one last time, new fresh clean water,going to let it flush through the system for a bit.
If still no joy, then it's time for the professionals.

 

[SimonG]

Where did you get the flexi's from? Probably not rated for central heating.

 

[Koogatubac]

Jim20, if you provide pictures its easier for us to comment and we will be able to assess the situation more efficiently. We could solve your problems if you send us some pictures

 

[Jim20]

I have had some success! ! ! ! Following on from my last post, I initially thought of loosening off one end of the flexis, but decided against this. Gently undid the towel warmer lockshield valve nut as if I was taking the valve apart, (not just the valve bit, for balancing) air came out, followed by nice dirty hot smelly water ! ! ! !. Downstairs rads sprung into life !
Towel warmer still cold though.

 

[Jim20]

The hoses came from screwfix. These Flexible Hose 15mm x 15mm 10mm bore 900mm | NoLinkingToThis. Is this and issue ? It wouldn't be impossible to use copper.

 

[AWheating]

probably wont last 1/2 a year before they go if your lucky.

at a guess they have a max temp rating of 65degrees, best to repipe in copper or plastic

 

[AWheating]

Toolstation > Plumbing > Flexible Connectors > Flexible Stainless Steel Hose

Toolstation > Plumbing > Flexible Connectors > PRO-FitPipe Flexible Extendable Connector

the above links to flexi pipes could be a solution but copper would be the best way to go.

 

[ne1ls0n]

jesus, we've went from reusing the old ch heating water to using flexi's on the ch system. you will be lucky if i plumber wants to touch it now, i wouldent.

 

[petercj]

I have had some success! ! ! ! Following on from my last post, I initially thought of loosening off one end of the flexis, but decided against this. Gently undid the towel warmer lockshield valve nut as if I was taking the valve apart, (not just the valve bit, for balancing) air came out, followed by nice dirty hot smelly water ! ! ! !. Downstairs rads sprung into life !
Towel warmer still cold though.

Hot CLEAN water would be better. Have you had the system properly cleaned within the last few years?

Do the radiators get hot at the bottom?

Before you lash out on more inhibitor, it would be good housekeeping to make sure the system is squeaky clean.

If there's a lot of sludge in the radiators, you can take them off and connect a hose to clean them, or hire a power flush machine for around £50.

 

[Jim20]

Everything is working now.
Radiators seem to heat up evenly. But will look into getting it flushed.

 

[Jim20]

It seems madness that if you shouldn't be using Flexi Hoses in central heating systems, that it does not clearly state this

 

[Guest123]

Let me get this straight.....you have used a flexible hose on a central heating system?!!!!!

They are designed to withstand temps up to 65 degrees. Your flexies will become brittle, split and fail, plus any chemistry you have in your system will further degrade the rubber.

No matter how many times, we've advised you about getting a professional in, you seem to want to ignore this advice.....at your own peril be it. You might be tight, but you're not saving money doing this yourself, you've already damaged your heating system by doing this, it's not working right?!

 

[Guest123]

It seems madness that if you shouldn't be using Flexi Hoses in central heating systems, that it does not clearly state this

That's another reason why you shouldn't be messing around with things you know little about. Any professional will tell you to never use a flexible hose on a heating system and not on old hot water supplies where the water can exceed 65 degrees.

 

[Jim20]

Steady on.
If you read the posts earlier you would know that I resolved the initial problem on my own with no help, working logically through the options.
My Central Heating system is all working fine !
Yes I have made a couple of minor errors along the way, but nothing major.
The re-use of the water, maybe stupid, but it had only been in the system a couple of months prior to me cleaning and adding inhibator.
The using of flexis, well as I said it should be made clearer. They state weather they can be used for drinking water or not, so surely, an extra line stating not to be used in CH Systems wouldn't be too much.

And your statement "No matter how many times, we've advised you about getting a professional in" - You advised me once. Somebody else advised to check for an airlock and then call for a professional.

 

[SimonG]

You've done it wrong, you've been told, you choose to ignore. Bye bye.

Hope you're not paying house insurance, cos once those flexis go they'll not pay out.

 

[Jim20]

I am at a loss as to why you two feel the need for these posts.
I am righting my wrongs and I am thankful for the advice. I never said otherwise.

 

[petercj]

Steady on.
If you read the posts earlier you would know that I resolved the initial problem on my own with no help, working logically through the options.
My Central Heating system is all working fine !
Yes I have made a couple of minor errors along the way, but nothing major.
The re-use of the water, maybe stupid, but it had only been in the system a couple of months prior to me cleaning and adding inhibator.
The using of flexis, well as I said it should be made clearer. They state weather they can be used for drinking water or not, so surely, an extra line stating not to be used in CH Systems wouldn't be too much.

And your statement "No matter how many times, we've advised you about getting a professional in" - You advised me once. Somebody else advised to check for an airlock and then call for a professional.

JG state whether a fitting is suitable or not for central heating systems - they've got a red (hot) / blue (cold) colour code system too.

John Guest Speedfit - The World Leader in Push-fit Fittings, Pipe and Plastic Plumbing Systems - 15 & 22mm White PVC Hoses

Flexible pipes with very hot water are prone to kinking.

If you are going to use a flexi on a cold fitting stick with JG - long unbranded flexis are now available for a couple of pounds, which means they will have been manufactured for a few pence, so little wonder if they are unreliable.

At least you've got the problems sorted and will know what to do next time.

 

[Jim20]

Many Thanks PeterCJ.
Useful Advice

 

[hammers4spanner]

Shallow pockets^^

 

[Koogatubac]

Jim20, please please PLEASE show pictures!!!

I want to see exactly how youve done everything, you've done ALOT wrong where it is and will damage your house such as the flexi's, they will fail and then pull down your ceilings and other issues!

Never have i seen a flexi on a CH i want to see ittttt

 

[petercj]

... and your wives will leave you, and your camels will go lame ... you have bought a curse upon your house ... please call a plumber asap to exorcise these demons by the use of fire and hot copper !!!

and so it came to pass... to be continued.

 

[ne1ls0n]

get rid of the flexi's and get some copper involved, if your not confedent with using copper then use plastic and some push fit fittings, just make sure you get them in full slip and use inserts. that will be alot better than the flexi's.

 

[Jim20]

Hay guys thanks.
I took heed of the first warning with the Flexi's. I am in the process of soldering copper replacements. It is just a little awkward as I have to get from under the floor, up under the bath and then into the airing cupboard. Hence the initial thought of flexis.

I don't why you all felt I didn't listen. I came to your website for advice, you guys are the professionals

Koogatubac - Its all fine. I have Copper pipe running down the back of the Airing Cupboard, which connects to the radiator. I then have the main radiator flow and return, which I have solderd 'T' connections in. Then copper pipe under the floor to underneath the bath. At this point I had the Flexi's to get me from under the bath, accross and then up into the airing cupboard, to connect to the copper pipe. Thats all.