Does this work seem reasonable?

[IDCHAPPY]

this is why i dont get involved with boiler repairs, i dont do enough fault finidng to be assured that i will find the correct fault, i refuse to be one of those people who keep changing parts until they find the fault. i have worked with people who do that, its ok if you have a van of parts and you swap back if it aint broke, but to keep buying and charging for them is wrong imo

Totally agree buddy

 

[mike_s]

The guy should be steered well clear of until he revises his pricing policy in my opinion. £45 is fine but you can't charge for incorrect diagnosis and parts that wern't required. Worst case is he could charge for parts only but just the labour it took to fit the correct part.

 

[GQuigley67]

The guy should be steered well clear of until he revises his pricing policy in my opinion. £45 is fine but you can't charge for incorrect diagnosis and parts that wern't required. Worst case is he could charge for parts only but just the labour it took to fit the correct part.

True, You shouldn't pay for his mistakes

 

[RoryD]

Hi. I've recently had some work done on a Ravensheat combi boiler (RSF82E) by a registered CORGI engineer and think the bill is over the top. I'd be grateful for your professional comments.

The guy was called out because the boiler was not firing up when the HW tap (or CH) was turned on. After 2 hours he diagnosed a fauly ingnition PCB. After ordering a replacement (the exisiting one was only 6 months old) he returned for almost 2 hours to fit it, and as the boiler was still not working, he then diagnosed a faulty diverter valve. Having ordered that part he came back for 5 and a half hours to fit it and drain and refill the CH system. Boiler still not working, so I call him back again, and this time the diagnosis (1 hour) was a faulty low water shut off valve, which later look 2 and a half hours to fit. At last the boiler is working, but I now have a £922 bill: £582 for 13 hours of labour (hourly rate of £45 - we live in Buckinghamshire) plus £340 (incl VAT) for parts: £150 for PCB, £137 for diverter valve, £37 for shut off and £16 for radiator additive.

Checking internet prices, the parts seem about right, but my query is: should it really take 3 attempts to find and solve the problem, or is it probable that actually there were 3 separate faults that could not have been reasonably picked up in one visit.

The boiler was last serviced and certified by my regular engineer 6 months ago (he was away on holiday, hence the call to the new guy).

In short ...NO! The bloke is an incompetent. If I'd have spent that long on what to me seems a simple solution, my manager would correctly, ask questions. I'm incredulous how often I hear this. Following instructions from a manual would dictate that boiler installation is relatively simple. However repairs are quite a different proposition and it seems there are plenty of chancers about who charge what they will for their incompetence with total impunity

 

[WHPES]

BTW CORGI registration does not exist any longer as it has been replaced by the Gas Safe Register. If they were still quoting CORGI they are probably unlicensed.

 

[helix]

I agree with Gas Man, you'd better off with a new boiler for that sort of money and with a warranty from the manufacturer as well!

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

I can't comment on the technical side.
£45 per hour is a reasonable rate
Boilers can have 3 different faults at the same time or within days and after the event no-one has anyway of finding out where this did or didn't need those parts.
But 13 hours does sound very excessive.

Question is what should customer do.
i think the customer should pay for the materials straight awa so guy is not out of pocket and offer half a day's money £45 x 4 = £180 for labour - see what he says.

And lesson learned? If your usual heating expert isn't available then my advice is contact the boiler manufacturer who will either employ their own engineer or will have a list of people qualified/ trained on those boilers. I expect Ravenheat do this but we have no experience, we never fit them.

 

[wazzer]

Ravenheat would of sent an engineer round for a fixed price any fault and they guarantee the boiler for a year . they are not a good boiler but have good isolators on them so you dont usually have to drain the system just the boiler sounds like you have been ripped of by an idiot with a lack of experience have you checked Gas Safe website to see if he is registered all the parts should take no longer than half an hour each to fit

 

[mfgs]

Half hour to fit a diverter valve is a bit ambitious. They can be a real pain in the arse and can easily end up taking a couple hours, perhaps not the 5 1/2 hours this fella took though.

 

[gornsgorns]

This guy clearly hasn't got a clue and frankly is taking the micky abit. He should stick to instals since it's obvious he doesn't know much about fault finding. Why don't people like these just go on a few courses and try and learn things, rather than just guessing what's wrong and charging the customer a fortune for the privilege.

 

[RoryD]

rarely is there more than one fault causing you a breakdown and it's unlikely you'll ever have three. I'm sure someone will try and disprove. My point is, engineers should be able to diagnose logically, to pinpoint the fault

 

[diamondgas]

My point is, engineers should be able to diagnose logically, to pinpoint the fault

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a diagnostics kit at hand or even the mi's for that matter when they attend a repair! Taking the case off a boiler is daunting for many who venture into repairing appliances and if you aren't doing it day in day out you soon get rusty! I'd agree that there is always the logical approach to fault finding but when you can't even recognise components or take the bleedn' case off, it gets a bit frustrating! Personally i think the diagnostic repair engineer is a rare breed in comparison to the part fitter! If your a repair engineer working for yourself it's a scary business at times, especially when faced with something you've never seen before, new or old!

The engineer the op had was a part fitter, and an expensive one at that! However there are times when we get it wrong, times when you go with your best guess! Through time those times become less and less but they still happen and will continue too throughout your career!

Regards pinpointing a fault! One of the hardest one to get right first time every time is one of the most common faults we come across with combi's, "hot water not getting hot enough!" So many variables!

I will never know it all and I will make wrong decisions, I know i will. Beauty is I'll continue to learn from them! 😀

 

[bill577]

It depends on who you expect to pay for your mistakes, the mistakes I have made I paid for (still got a gas valve and a couple of pcb,s in my van from my misdiagnosis) the muppet that worked on the op,s boiler is expecting the customer to pick up the bill for his mistakes and training.

 

[armourer]

Considering we have only heard one side of the story I think there a few too many people here willing to hang a fellow engineer out to dry.

Yes the amount of time he "seems" to have taken appears excessive but who is to say the boiler did not have multiple faults or what state it was in before he arrived?

Unless we are stood in front of the same boiler I dont think anybody can fairly comment one way or the other.

 

[secret squirrel]

Considering we have only heard one side of the story I think there a few too many people here willing to hang a fellow engineer out to dry.

Yes the amount of time he "seems" to have taken appears excessive but who is to say the boiler did not have multiple faults or what state it was in before he arrived?

Unless we are stood in front of the same boiler I dont think anybody can fairly comment one way or the other.

I thought I was the only one putting another side of the argument, woo hoo! I thought I was going mad(er)

 

[GQuigley67]

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a diagnostics kit at hand or even the mi's for that matter when they attend a repair! Taking the case off a boiler is daunting for many who venture into repairing appliances and if you aren't doing it day in day out you soon get rusty! I'd agree that there is always the logical approach to fault finding but when you can't even recognise components or take the bleedn' case off, it gets a bit frustrating! Personally i think the diagnostic repair engineer is a rare breed in comparison to the part fitter! If your a repair engineer working for yourself it's a scary business at times, especially when faced with something you've never seen before, new or old!

The engineer the op had was a part fitter, and an expensive one at that! However there are times when we get it wrong, times when you go with your best guess! Through time those times become less and less but they still happen and will continue too throughout your career!

Regards pinpointing a fault! One of the hardest one to get right first time every time is one of the most common faults we come across with combi's, "hot water not getting hot enough!" So many variables!

I will never know it all and I will make wrong decisions, I know i will. Beauty is I'll continue to learn from them! 😀

fault finding is fairly new to me, but was it a boiler today which had broken down think it was the PCB as there was power to the boiler but no lights or nothing and fuse was fine, just got me thinking that if it was the fuse I wouldnt have any spares. What do you more experienced breakdown guys carry as spares for boiler breakdowns ?

 

[armourer]

Personally I carry
1. Grey push button gas valve
2. 3 Amp fuses
3. 2 Amp glass quick blow fuses
4. Honeywell APS
5. Honeywell mid pos valve
6. Honeywell room stat
7. Honeywell Cyl stat
8. Giani diverter valve seal kit
9. Single channel and dual channel programmers
10. Fan oil
11. a selection of about 12 different thermistors and high limit stats
12. Grundfoss Pump
13. short lengths of wire for shorting out contacts
14. Fluke voltage stick
15. Multimeter
16. FGA

Its a good starter kit and gets you around a lot of common faults, Im sure there a few more but I cannot think now.

It is better to be prepared as a return visit is lost money in the long run.
If I had a bigger van Im sure there would be a lot more.

 

[wazzer]

I dont have many a selection of thermisters and a grey button Oh and a compulsory giaonani diaphragm and maybe a baxi one

 

[diamondgas]

fault finding is fairly new to me, but was it a boiler today which had broken down think it was the PCB as there was power to the boiler but no lights or nothing and fuse was fine, just got me thinking that if it was the fuse I wouldnt have any spares. What do you more experienced breakdown guys carry as spares for boiler breakdowns ?

It depends on what's the more popular appliances you have on contract GQ and the parts that more frequently go wrong. I have a selection of thermisters, diaphragm sets, prv's and AAV's. for starters. Have a lot of Baxi's so carry a spare PCB... An adjustable APS can be handy! Then have a boat load of washers and 'o'rings plus different types of fuses! 🙂

 

[GQuigley67]

well I could come up against any boiler really as I'm out on my own, so far have done repair work on Vokera, Ariston & Ideal boilers. Are most internal fuses the same for boilers ? or do they vary ?