Expansion vessel position on unvented installation

[paulusgg]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and at the moment I can't find an answer to a problem I have.
I fit a lot of unvented cylinders for a loft conversion company (I'm G3 competent) as very often they need to see the storage tanks gone from the loft.
The question for you lot is "is it acceptable to place the expansion vessel at low level or should it be at least as high as the water control set?"
I've read some posts discussing the orientation of the vessel, i.e. Schrader (car tyre ) type valve pointing up, down or sideways, but nothing about the position of the vessel relative to the cylinder. Quite often, due to space limitations and servicing needs I've had to place the vessel at a low level, below the control set.

Thoughts and views welcome

 

[Best]

As long as it is fitted to MIs and unvented regs, then anywhere near to the unvented cylinder is fine.
Going to be harder work every time the vessel needs replaced though, if it was fitted low.
I don't want to comment on any details on open forum, as I hate the thought of DIYers working on unvented reading to much.

 

[SimonG]

Your ears would be burning if i followed you in to replace the vessel 🙂

 

[Best]

Your ears would be burning if i followed you in to replace the vessel 🙂

Damn Rotters! I would say. ... Or different words perhaps. :smile:

 

[Dotty]

Damn Rotters! I would say. ... Or different words perhaps. :smile:

"Oh! You insidious swine!"

Summat like that you mean?

 

[Ermintrude]

Golly gosh marmaduke looks like the Harrow men's team fitted this. What what!

 

[SimonG]

Once the rant was over the cust would be told its extra money to replace and then they would be told the reason why 🙂

 

[Best]

"Oh! You insidious swine!"

Summat like that you mean?

Or, our local term, - " What Hallion did this? "

"Hallion" is probably an Ulster/Scots word meaning a useless person, for those that are wondering.
Tends to be used for a person doing really rough throw it in workmanship.

 

[oz-plumber]

'Hallion' depicts me to a tee.

As of tomorrow - I will use that word at least once a day

 

[rpm]

Or, our local term, - " What Hallion did this? "

"Hallion" is probably an Ulster/Scots word meaning a useless person, for those that are wondering.
Tends to be used for a person doing really rough throw it in workmanship.

My favorite is what......... I Dee Ten Tee fitted this?

 

[Best]

My favorite is what......... I Dee Ten Tee fitted this?

Took me a few minutes to work out what that meant! :smile:
That phrase is used here - sounds like this, " I dinney fit this! "

 

[Ermintrude]

Eeeee that's canny

 

[rpm]

Took me a few minutes to work out what that meant! :smile:
That phrase is used here - sounds like this, " I dinney fit this! "

In that case the I Dee Ten Tee wasn`t you.

 

[Ermintrude]

Ye it's ye

 

[rpm]

Your losing me now mate.
???

 

[Toxic Ted]

Northern thing.....i can never understand them anyway!.....verbally and mentally!

 

[rpm]

Translation book indicates the word yes but I'm lost in the matter of context Toxic

 

[stevetheplumber]

maybe exspansion vessels should come on a self closing valves like some aav's especially for lofts where theres often no room above

 

[Chalked]

maybe exspansion vessels should come on a self closing valves like some aav's especially for lofts where theres often no room above

Good idea, but in reality there would be a danger of losing expansion if it shut.

 

[chris watkins]

Hear we go gents, two birds killed with one stone or should I say fitting. http://www.advancedwater.co.uk/STOMEMO/A520-632-0001/AntiLegionella.pdf

1. it contains a servicing valve & D/O for those low level installs you all seem to hate.

2. no danger of Legionella build up if you have a long dead-leg of pipe to your L/L vessel install, so long as your mains goes through it.

Happy days !!

(well until you see the cost but if you want quality & an easy life later)

 

[Chalked]

Hear we go gents, two birds killed with one stone or should I say fitting. http://www.advancedwater.co.uk/STOMEMO/A520-632-0001/AntiLegionella.pdf

1. it contains a servicing valve & D/O for those low level installs you all seem to hate.

2. no danger of Legionella build up if you have a long dead-leg of pipe to your L/L vessel install, so long as your mains goes through it.

Happy days !!

(well until you see the cost but if you want quality & an easy life later)

what happens if someone turns the service valve off? ( i do know by the way!):blush5:

 

[chris watkins]

what happens if someone turns the service valve off? ( i do know by the way!):blush5:

Same thing as happens when it isn't maintained & looses it's charge!!!! (two tiers of protection are in place in UK).

Did you know, in other parts of the world,, who run these systems, they don't have any means to take up the expansion when the water is heated preferring instead to just rely on safety valve if the pressure goes to high.

 

[Nostrum]

My favorite is what......... I Dee Ten Tee fitted this?

Something about under cooked pasta?

 

[oz-plumber]

[QUOTE

Did you know, in other parts of the world,, who run these systems, they don't have any means to take up the expansion when the water is heated preferring instead to just rely on safety valve if the pressure goes to high.[/QUOTE]

That's what we do in our part of the globe.
Very rare to have expansion vessel on domestic hot water system.

 

[rpm]

Something about under cooked pasta?

Nope but interesting stream of thought there

 

[paulusgg]

My thoughts regarding the position of the expansion vessel is that as long as it's placed between the water control set and the cylinder cold feed then anywhere is acceptable. For maintenance purposes it would obviously be preferable to locate the vessel higher than the cylinder but as stated in the original post many of our cylinder installs are located in very tight locations where putting the ev high is not an option. Not if you wanted to check the pressure.
It seems that the only disadvantage to low level installation is that should the vessel fail the cylinder would need draining.
And to gain clarity on the issue I discussed it with the technical department at Kingspan (we fit mainly Albion or Tribune cylinders) who stated that anywhere between the inlet set and the cylinder was OK and that the MI's schematic showed the preferred position.

 

[Best]

And to gain clarity on the issue I discussed it with the technical department at Kingspan (we fit mainly Albion or Tribune cylinders) who stated that anywhere between the inlet set and the cylinder was OK and that the MI's schematic showed the preferred position.

The photograph I see and the drawings from MIs of the preferred position of vessel is only to simplify it for us, I believe. Guess just to show vessel last thing before cylinder feed in.