Gas leak or not

[Riley]

Morning guys

slightly odd one I'm struggling to get my head round. Any thoughts??

Carried out a LLGSC for a lady a couple of weeks ago. Small drop on tightness test but well within tolerance and no smell of gas.

LL contacted me a few days ago to tell me that her neighbour had reversed into her gas meter box and had smashed it. She was now concerned that there was a gas leak. I couldn't go so asked a mate of mine to pop over. She was right, soldered joint had fractured and gas pumping out at first elbow off meter. My mate fixed it with little hassle job done.

We chatted over over a brew last night and he said that after fixing the leak the drop was now back within tolerance.

Now im either wrong or have misinterpretted but if he works on the pipework is he not obliged to also remedy the small drop that was there when I did my LLGSC?

or am I getting confused with a new install?

please help me sort this in my head

 

[Tonycane]

Only applies to a new install, although it's good practice to try and find the drop where possible.

 

[Riley]

Thanks buddy. I think my confusion is that generally if I find a leak no matter how small I'll try and fix it

 

[Tonycane]

It's the way it should be, never like leaving a permissible drop. Last Friday was doing a test, had a slight drop so sprayed the pipe work, iron elbow going in to the wall started bubbling. Not what I needed at 4pm

 

[Riley]

Ugh tell me about it

 

[REDSAW]

no smell, home for tea 😉

 

[Last Plumber]

As long as it was exiting, with the appliances connected, within the tolerances, and like you say,no smell then it's OK.

Don't forget the ' appliances connected ' bit !
Pipework only should have no drop whether existing or new !

 

[ed209]

....

 

[ed209]

this is the bit that I misunderstood I thought if you detected a drop you then had to isolate the appliances then test again and rectify or ID if it was found to be the pipework

 

[KingDoey]

Deleted

 

[firemant]

There is NO tolerance if responding to a report of gas smell, so the OP is correct.

 

[newcastle phill]

When doing a cp12. And a small drop within spec is detected. No smell of gas.

Do yous record it on the paperwork. I do.
But i have often pondered this with myself - if its within spec why bother ?

 

[AWheating]

Some gas certs have a section to record drops, personally I wouldn't record unless it was close to the limit.

 

[spike.gb]

I always mark any within tolerance drop on the meter to see if it has deteriorated next visit.

 

[Masood]

this is the bit that I misunderstood I thought if you detected a drop you then had to isolate the appliances then test again and rectify or ID if it was found to be the pipework

No, there's no requirement to isolate appliances. In fact, there's no requirement to carry out a tightness test on CP12/LLGSC...

However, I disagree with whoever said you can leave the leak once you've worked on pipework - as far as I'm concerned if you work on the carcass, then you test it without appliances and the "no drop" rule applies. Not just for new installs.

 

[Geyser]

I personally would try and repair any drop I come across as most of my customers would want me to.
When working on existing pipework I thought only the new/section worked on must have no drop. So id test existing and record drop, then after new pipework done test again to check drop is the same.
But thats worst case, I hate leaving any drop.

 

[Darren Jackson]

like many others I too dislike leaving a drop, if I find one I isolate all appliances and re-test. If still drop time to get the sniffer out or leak detector and fix it otherwise ID it, if ok on pipework I then turn on apps 1 at a time till I find it and either mend or ID it & disconnect the appliance.

 

[ed209]

like many others I too dislike leaving a drop, if I find one I isolate all appliances and re-test. If still drop time to get the sniffer out or leak detector and fix it otherwise ID it, if ok on pipework I then turn on apps 1 at a time till I find it and either mend or ID it & disconnect the appliance.

This is exactly what i used to do but what is the legal position if you do not have the customers consent to isolate the appliances and there is no smell of gas. I was once challenged about this very scenario by a very clued up customer who explained that if it was in tolerance 4 or 8 mb respectively and no smell of gas then it is perfectly acceptable. This was confirmed by GS inspector. And furthermore if you isolate appliances and find its on pipe work and you can't find it (and no smell of gas reported) and yes am aware that you as the gas engineer can say you can smell gas (or does it have to be reported by householder) are you Technically allowed to Disconect

 

[quality]

This is exactly what i used to do but what is the legal position if you do not have the customers consent to isolate the appliances and there is no smell of gas. I was once challenged about this very scenario by a very clued up customer who explained that if it was in tolerance 4 or 8 mb respectively and no smell of gas then it is perfectly acceptable. This was confirmed by GS inspector. And furthermore if you isolate appliances and find its on pipe work and you can't find it (and no smell of gas reported) and yes am aware that you as the gas engineer can say you can smell gas (or does it have to be reported by householder) are you Technically allowed to Disconect

RIDDOR

If if its that complicated

 

[ed209]

With due respect that wasn't the question I was asking the correct and legal position as you could be liable for any financial loss is you became a law upon your self and just ID because it was your own personal policy

 

[Pssst]

So a leak was reported and this chap remedied a leak that he found in a damaged meter box to bring the total recorded leakage within tolerance? How does he know there was a tolerable leak in the first place? Before the meterbox incident, it might have been 100% sound? I think in those circs, it should be left 100% sound when he goes.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

So a leak was reported and this chap remedied a leak that he found in a damaged meter box to bring the total recorded leakage within tolerance? How does he know there was a tolerable leak in the first place? Before the meterbox incident, it might have been 100% sound? I think in those circs, it should be left 100% sound when he goes.

He cannot take your word for the fact that there was a permissible drop before the damage to the meter box pipework os, if the pipework is leaking and he fixes it then surely there should be no drop because he should be taking the position that there was no drop on the first place, regardless of what he is told by another engineer.
I know that we can all use the permissible drop clause but there shouldn't have been one in the existing pipework, and he has no way of proving that there was so he shouldn't leave it that with a drop.

 

[Gasmk1]

playing devils advocate here but why did you not look for and fix the leak in the first place.

 

[Riley]

Landlord job do anything without quoting for this landlord and they sulk and moan. Once bitten twice shy unfortunately. I made them fully aware of the permissible drop and ball was in their court as to whether they get it repaired. I'm sure we've all had customers like this though