Gas training agreement!

[AXTENK]

Hi all.
What are your thoughts on gas training agreements between employers and employees? Booked in for various re-assessments over a 5 1/2 day period. Company want me to sign agreement to pay back the course fee and their loss of earnings for the 5 1/2 days if I decide to leave within 5 years of the assessments. They are basing loss of earnings on £30 per hour x 44 hours = £1,850. They will pay my wage for the 5 1/2 days [£15 per hour]. Leave within 2 years pay back 100%. 2-3 years 75%. 3-4 years 50%. 4-5 years 25%.

 

[snowhead]

Paying back course fees on a reducing scale is not unusual.
Having to pay back lost (company) earnings, that's a neat trick if people fall for it.

Did you start with the company with Quals already?

 

[AXTENK]

Started fully qualified approx. 3 years ago.

 

[snowhead]

Started fully qualified approx. 3 years ago.

So if you left with 3yrs quals you should owe them nothing.

 

[zeebeedee]

Then you redo in 5 years and get tied back in

 

[kirkgas]

It's in enforceable to take the money back from you from your wages even if signed, they can only take back wage overpayment, if you leave they can send you a letter reminding you of the agreement you signed and asking for you to send a cheque
TBH they are being well greedy asking for loss of profit,
At best and to be fair employees should agree and payback a % of the training and assessment cost if they leave but only within a short time ie 6 months, it's unfair of some guys to wait till they have been out through ACS and hand their notice in the next week, but the firm will have made its money back and some within 6 months


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[kirkgas]

Should be un-enforceable


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[neily01]

Ask them for three years back pay on your previous quals!

 

[AXTENK]

Not got a problem paying back course fees on a reducing scale or the wages they would pay me for the 5 1/2 days but I think paying them back at £30 per hour x 44 hours is excecive?

 

[neily01]

Taking the mick i would say.

 

[villa_tom]

It's a complete joke when firms do this and if it was looked into properly I'd be inclined to say its probably not legal.

When I worked at the first firm I worked for I wanted to leave after two years and they asked for money back on my quals. So I rang gas safe who told me who had issued my certs, I rang them and got reprints sent to MY HOME ADDRESS for about thirty quid or so.

At the end of the day what use are your certs to a firm? Their just being tossers demanding things like this. It really gave me the hump when they tried to do it to me. It doesnt say a lot about a firm if they put thes types of clauses in place, it almost like they expect you to leave. Tell then they can have their money when you leave thn just do what I did. Easy peasy lemon squesey 🙂

 

[AWheating]

as mentioned by others they have gain 3 years free from yourself, i would agree to sign to say 50% first year and 25% second year and zero from then on. and the amount should be based on the cost of the course and your hourly rate. They are your employers and these costs should be taken into account when quoting for work and you should really not have to pay a penny but its your choice.

 

[REDSAW]

tell them you will take a week off holiday, pay for resit yourself then charge it to the company say £18 hour over 5 years?

 

[AWheating]

good idea Red.

how about week on hoilday, pay for the course yourself and then they pay you £1 an hour or whatever extra............. put that to them and see what they say.

some companys use this type of thing to try and scare you into staying put.

 

[lame plumber]

It's a complete joke when firms do this and if it was looked into properly I'd be inclined to say its probably not legal.

When I worked at the first firm I worked for I wanted to leave after two years and they asked for money back on my quals. So I rang gas safe who told me who had issued my certs, I rang them and got reprints sent to MY HOME ADDRESS for about thirty quid or so.

At the end of the day what use are your certs to a firm? Their just being tossers demanding things like this. It really gave me the hump when they tried to do it to me. It doesnt say a lot about a firm if they put thes types of clauses in place, it almost like they expect you to leave. Tell then they can have their money when you leave thn just do what I did. Easy peasy lemon squesey 🙂

if you agree to the terms laid down by the firm, you have a contract and they can take to small claims to get money back as agreed. however it would be more reasonable to go to them and say ok i'll stay min 3 years and write off 1/3 of tarining costs each year and they have to accept they have to pay you to get reassed and forget loss of profit. You can refuse to agree to their terms as you consider their terms to be an onerous contract and if they let you go then you could go to a tribuneral to claim unfair dismissal, as long as they have employed you for over two years. Having said that if your not looking to change jobs in the next 5 years whats the issue, if you are nows the time to move on!

 

[tamz]

If you sign it it will be a legally binding contract and they "could" chase you for it.

Here is the std JIB acs contract.

 

[leethegasman]

The jib contract looks fair

 

[R1CKY]

Be very careful with this sort of thing and make sure you put down in writing if you disagree to anything. I was stung when I handed in my notice.

Long story short, my old company paid for my ACS in 2009, I left middle of this year and had my wages withheld and a further bill. I was tricked into signing some dodgy contract as an apprentice, which was doctored. I could have fought it and not payed anything, but I had no energy left to fight and just wanted to move on.

But I was told by several employment solicitors that no matter what was written on a contract, it had to be deemed fair and I was told that any sort of terms after 24 months probably wouldn't be enforceable!

Check your company policy on contracts, it usually states that if you don't object in writing to a contract within 14 days, its as good as signing it!

 

[AWheating]

Be very careful with this sort of thing and make sure you put down in writing if you disagree to anything. I was stung when I handed in my notice.

Long story short, my old company paid for my ACS in 2009, I left middle of this year and had my wages withheld and a further bill. I was tricked into signing some dodgy contract as an apprentice, which was doctored. I could have fought it and not payed anything, but I had no energy left to fight and just wanted to move on.

But I was told by several employment solicitors that no matter what was written on a contract, it had to be deemed fair and I was told that any sort of terms after 24 months probably wouldn't be enforceable!

Check your company policy on contracts, it usually states that if you don't object in writing to a contract within 14 days, its as good as signing it!

it is illegal to withold a persons wages for such an agreement. A persons wages can only be stopped for a few things which would written in a standard contract of employement, and any stoppages need to be notified in advance to be legal also.

So anybody who's company does this should stick up for themselves and demand to be treated as the law requires.

 

[kay-jay]

If you sign it it will be a legally binding contract and they "could" chase you for it.

thats a common misconception tom.

actually in contract law it doesnt matter what you sign upto, the law draws the line at statutory rights.

for example if you sign upto a contract such as that in question and it transpired that the company was in the wrong and the contract contravened your statutory rights the fact that you signed would not mean anything. to protect idiots it is not permitted to sign away statutory rights.

example 2, idiot in employment has statutory rights of 4 weeks hols a year, signs contract to say he will accept only two weeks. contract is null and void and company gets fined.

obviously the op needs advice as to the legality of what the employer is saying.if it is unlawful i would suggest he signs to keep employer sweet then leave when it suits him as he is protected...