Going 'old skool'- advice please.

[markproperjob]

I've a job coming up to re-install a 30 year old oil fired rayburn royal back into its original location in a farmhouse, it was moved to a neighbouring cottage years ago, now needs re installing.
i'm fully oftec qualified, have a lot of experience in breakdown, service and pressurejet installs, and am honeywell trained.
i am needing some old school install advice please, as all this old rayburn will be running is a heat leak radiator on upstairs landing.
problem is, i've got to install everything from scratch as none of original system left, and ive only ever fitted sealed system y/s type plans, and open vented fully pumped.
the pipework from the rayburn, to heatleak rad, will be 22mm, the open vent pipe to the header tank will also be 22mm on the top 'flow' pipe from the cooker.
the return pipe will be 22mm,

but, what diameter pipe should i be running the feed pipe in?
i'm thinking 15mm, but is this correct?

i will not be fitting a pump, as the heat leak rad id directly above the rayburn, less than 5 metres away.
the new header will be 4 metres above that.
advice please!

 

[SimonG]

Is the heat leak rad the only item being fed by the rayburn?

 

[markproperjob]

yes, nothing else.
using a 1000x600 k2 rad, locksheilded.
theres a worc pj running rest of property.

 

[Bartdude]

If the
Rayburn isn't being used to heat hot water then the best option would be to remove the boiler and use it as a cooker only.The heat leak is only required to protect the hot water system from excessive temperatures.The Rayburn can be modified to suit the purpose required.

 

[justlead1]

Hi, I think the advise so far is spot on. A rad of the size described may loss say 800 watts. Although these units are not renown for output, they certainly kick out a little more than 800 watts. Plus 22 mm /3/4" pipe is not recommended on this sort of installation.
Considering the labour and materials are likely to be in excess of £600-00 it will take a life time to recoup outlay. Give the punter an extra 800 watt in the kitchen by decommissioning the water jacket. Good Luck

 

[WHPES]

Can you presuade the customer to flog it and get somthing more efficient and easier for you to install?

 

[SimonG]

If the
Rayburn isn't being used to heat hot water then the best option would be to remove the boiler and use it as a cooker only.The heat leak is only required to protect the hot water system from excessive temperatures.The Rayburn can be modified to suit the purpose required.

Spot on Bartdude, thats why I was asking if it was going to be the only heat source for the rayburn.

 

[markproperjob]

thanks for replies guys.
sadly, i already did my best to persuade the customer to use as cooker only, but no go.
they want a rad on the upstairs landing, running 24-7. i know its uneconomical, inefficient and expensive, but thats what they want!!
they already have a greenstar running the rest of the place!!
they want the cooker as its 'homely', this is a holiday let you see, and the old building gets damp through winter when unoccupied.
the 22mm pipe run is already in situ from builder who ran lengths of 22mm copper behind newly fixed stud walling ready for plumb-guy to connect up to.

 

[WHPES]

Is it actually permitted under Part L ? (or is that new build only?)

 

[Bartdude]

I wouldn't connect the Rayburn to a circuit with just one radiator,there would be a real risk of boiling,even more so in a holiday let.There's a real safety issue there.

 

[WHPES]

Yes my thoughts. One radiator is not enough to dissipate the heat. Also any radiators on a circuit from an uncontrolled heat source must be of the shrouded type or they would be so hot it would be a safety issue and you the installer would be liable if anyone got burnt from them. Children are often injured in such circumstances when they put their hands on them. Youve also got the risk of the cistern boiling over (which btw must be steel with a copper float) and scalding water coming throught the ceiling.

Look at the controls on the greenstar - if they havent got one, they need a programmable room stat. If they have, suggest a low temp or frost thermostat.

If they insist on the radiator, I would walk away from the job as its not worth the risk.

Another option would be to convert the Rayburn to pressure jet, however 30 year old? Sounds like its due for the scrap heap?

 

[markproperjob]

hi guys.
been away!
ok, sounds like its too risky to install.
the trouble i'll have is that originally the rayburn was plumbed in just this way, heating one rad.the customer will argue that.
i cant comment on the header as havnt seen it yet.
how difficult a job is it to run it as cooker only?
i appreciate the boiler side must not be connected or blanked off, but is it acceptable to run it without pipework connected as a cooker, with boiler in place but empty and open to atmosphere?
this old royale is actually spotless, and has no signs of degradation, but i am not in the business of pulling the whole thing apart.
i am very good at servicing and setting them up to run perfectly, have a reputation for this, but i'm not pulling it apart as i would not be able to put it back together!

 

[Gray0689]

Yes it's fine to run uncapped and empty of water

 

[Bartdude]

Yes,no problem with that,you may need to turn the low fire setting down on the oil control valve so it doesn't overheat now that it's not losing heat to the water.Make sure it's got a 90 degree fire valve fitted too,even more important on a holiday let.

 

[markproperjob]

ok, thanks guys.
always fit a sheilded 90 firevalve in front base of firebox and a 65 over ocv.
dont like vapourisers in holiday lets, the emmets always mess about with controls, or kids move them etc and end up with major problems.
piling clothes up on hotplate to dry was a pearler!
had one where theyd wedged a pushchair up against the ocv tilting it while left on high fire,allowing excess oil flow for days, didnt shut down, didnt have a kbb, buckled oven doors like a banana!