Government free boiler schemes

[Worcester]

Its same as b AND Q offer presume they are in king fisher group as well , the b and q deal imho isnt worth the aggro

Screwfix ARE B&Q, they are both part of the Kingfisher group

 

[hammers4spanner]

oh and iqe is sime feel sorry for anyone getting that free

 

[Worcester]

Actually the Energy Companies, aren't making anything on this - they are paying for it...

ECO = Energy Company Obligation

ECO is driven by a set of mandatory targets. For every 1% under their Obligation, an Energy Supplier will be fined approx £50M to £100M, depending upon their market share. So they gotta spend it!!

 

[julesverne]

Totally agree but what makes it laughable is that the boiler manufacturer (ideal) is obviously just turning a blind eye to the fact that they aren't, doing any kind of flush etc which when all we hear about is dirty system this and that causing boiler breakdowns, and benchmark schemes .

what they fitting logic or logic plus

 

[hammers4spanner]

are you a worcester rep??

 

[woodsy]

what they fitting logic or logic plus

Not 100 % sure , believe it's the plus

 

[Ermintrude]

are you a worcester rep??

That's a really horrible allegation!

 

[Worcester]

Worcester isn't a Worcester Rep - despite a similar name we are NOTHING to do with Worcester Bosch.

 

[village idiot]

what they fitting logic or logic plus

Logic +, I doubt that very much.

 

[tamz]

It's going to go poo poo when they All go wrong and the scheme guarantor is up the creek without a paddle. I think that by end of next year going to be 5 ads a week on TV and in papers from solicitor s re; miss selling and Ropey assessments. Fines galore ..... But the installers gone bust, doh refer back to finance provider , plums, b&q , they are stuck for duration of finance. All this rubbish and all the paperwork just to make middle man some more money and the energy companies even more. No thanks .

I take it it would be the guy who installed it and signed it off who would/could be liable so they are going to take the hit on any comebacks. This scheme is encouraging even worse practices and workmanship than Eaga were famed for.
I've even heard of guys (idiots) being paid £85 a swap doing 10 a week to make a living.
What really really annoys me about this one is the landlords getting their properties done for free and the ease with which they can scam it. Why should we pay to effectively line their pockets by increasing the value of their properties.

Like all things government run, the intention may be good but they balls it up as they haven't a clue.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Actually the Energy Companies, aren't making anything on this - they are paying for it...

ECO = Energy Company Obligation

ECO is driven by a set of mandatory targets. For every 1% under their Obligation, an Energy Supplier will be fined approx £50M to £100M, depending upon their market share. So they gotta spend it!!

utter tripe its just been on t.v that the energy companies are charging £50 per house hold to run this scheme and costs are going to rise as its spiralling out of control.

They are making no money but they are making damn sure the cost of this scheme is passed onto the energy user

 

[johnnyplumb]

Not 100 % sure , believe it's the plus

it's the logic and it's not just a free boiler there getting, I was at a job 2 days ago, the guy got a logic 30, 4 radiators and a tf1 all for free. no clock with the boiler though, nice little earner for me, charged him £120 for a £40 clock, 2 minutes work, easy money & probably more money than the installers got. the quality of the work was pretty bad, system not flushed, no room stat, flue sloping the wrong way so dripping condensate, 3m of 22mm condensate pipe outside, no lagging, no clips etc

 

[Ermintrude]

Sounds lovely. If flue wrong way u should have filled in some paperwork.

 

[LPC]

I don't know what you're all worried about. In a few years when 60,000 badly installed pieces of crap start going wrong, we'll be there to fix them/install good boilers!

 

[Ermintrude]

I don't know what you're all worried about. In a few years when 60,000 badly installed pieces of crap start going wrong, we'll be there to fix them/install good boilers!

Oh joy of joys ! Fixing poor installs for tight landlords and skint home owners. Ground hog day ega?

 

[crashndie]

We have just got on the eco / affordable warmth an i can tell you its cost us over £5k for the courses pas2030 dea gda office managements etc etc and were making £130 a job on average i've found its not worth the hassle and paper work for it all...

 

[Ermintrude]

Bet your cash flow gets worse too. 300k on 90days! Easy boom and bust in 180 days

 

[tamz]

The full set up is pysh. Brought about with consultation (in collaboration or an i being too cynical) with all their mates in the big corporates.
No matter how much they bum it this is not for the small guy without huge financial risk.

 

[rayplumber]

Is any one else doing Eco or green deal already like crashndie what are your experiences and is that the norm to only be getting £130 an install defo not worth it after spending £5k on getting pas2030

 

[Ermintrude]

If your just subbing and not doing commissioning yeh £120 to £200 a swap. In and out in 3 hrs. No flush no stat bang . If you are 2030 u can be the contractor get jobs in for 1.7 to 3k and pay Subbies who arnt 2030 then u commission, do paperwork for a week and then wait ages for money.

 

[rayplumber]

Yes but crashndie said he has got pas 2030 and says he only makes £130 per job do you think this is right or is crashndie just trying to prevent us all doing our pas2030 ?

 

[Ermintrude]

He's probably just subbing. I wouldn't waste my money getting pas2030. Just su bad combi bash. 2 a day that's 240 min.

 

[Liam]

I am installer/DEA for the ECO/Green deal and you need a massive lump of money and an experienced team to help you through the silly amount of paperwork per job.

It is aimed at small businesses but its beyond me how they can keep up with the paperwork. We are up to 50 jobs a week now and doing really well, but its been a bumpy ride getting there.

Anyone needs any advice just let me know

 

[Liam]

Why you only making 130 mate? Your either paying big prices or haven't got yourself good term for boiler prices? Are you on the set price for each job?

 

[rayplumber]

I have sent you a pm Liam cheers

 

[rayplumber]

I don't think there is a plumber in the land that doesn't think that this Eco and greendeal could be done better I think it has been set up to make the big companies richer and the sole trader small businesses out of business but what can we do? We either all do the pas 2030 or all get together and try and do something about it any ideas ?

 

[Ray Stafford]

I don't think there is a plumber in the land that doesn't think that this Eco and greendeal could be done better I think it has been set up to make the big companies richer and the sole trader small businesses out of business but what can we do? We either all do the pas 2030 or all get together and try and do something about it any ideas ?

I don't think this is deliberate - its a side-effect of the way governments work.

Step 1) - some politician decides on a desirable programme to help old/poor people or to save the planet.

Step 2) - a civil servant is delegated to make the programme work

Step 3) - since the civil servant has absolutely zero knowledge of how boiler installations work (which is fair enough) he/she decides to consult with "the industry".

Step 4) - so who represents "the industry". You? Me? Bod, Croppie or Gas-man? Of course not, we are way too busy earning a living. The people who get "consulted with" are the firms who are big enough to retain lobbying and PR consultants, and those who make their living like parasites on the industry by creating new approvals/training courses/registration systems etc. I hate this latter group like a methodist preacher hates the demon drink.

Step 5) - a poorly thought out programme results, where the financial incentives work in favour of the large firms, but against a quality installation, but the paper trail gives a fig leaf of "quality management" to the whole thing.

Step 6) - don't worry, because the politician who made the decision in step 1 has either been reshuffled to another department, or their party is no longer in power.

Step 7) - go to step 1.

 

[Worcester]

Ray: Problem solved 🙂

Why don't you do what Gafton etc have done.

i.e. become a Green Deal Provider and act as the body in the middle. There are already independent networks of GDA's that provide the other bits, deal is simple, they MUST buy their materials through you for these projects. You do all the eco paperwork, they do what they are good at, quality installs. (you have the PAS203, to be a subbies they don;t need to be)

Jobs a good'un 🙂

 

[Ray Stafford]

Ray: Problem solved 🙂

Why don't you do what Gafton etc have done.

i.e. become a Green Deal Provider and act as the body in the middle. There are already independent networks of GDA's that provide the other bits, deal is simple, they MUST buy their materials through you for these projects. You do all the eco paperwork, they do what they are good at, quality installs. (you have the PAS203, to be a subbies they don;t need to be)

Jobs a good'un 🙂

Hi Worcester. We did look at that, but decided that we lacked the resources to do it properly at the moment. We may come back to it later. However, that really isn't the point. If we were to do that, we would still just be making the best of a badly constructed scheme.

 

[Ermintrude]

And going down the pan due to cash flow issues.,

 

[rayplumber]

Who is gafton

 

[Ray Stafford]

Who is gafton

I think he meant Grafton group - the owners of Plumbase, Buildbase etc.

 

[rayplumber]

Any one got any info on who it is best to subbie to best rates and best for paying there bills I have already been bumped 30k from doing subbie work so don't like it but they way things are I don't see the choices we have it's either go large and take people on or stay sole trader and go subbie

 

[Kewat66]

Is it worth getting PAS 20/30 qualification? I dont mind doing the groundwork but i want to know it is not for nothing.

 

[JAH HEATING]

I did an install Friday, am not pas2030 just subbie the work.

the paperwork I had to do was a proper ballache, taking photos of all kinds for £160 after tax has been taking off.

I'd hate to be running the show, the paperwork an waiting on payment must be head wrecking