Help Estimating Boiler Size

[Scol]

The property is circa 3500 Square feet.

Lame Plumber, I think most people could work out how to steal oil but most would not have a clue with Gas but I agree that that anyone who is truly determined will find a way and they would probably steal your pellets too 🙂

Why are you so anti LPG, is it largely down to cost/sustainability?

Thanks for your help.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I'd want to fit 2 boilers as well, saves horsing one to death and you have back up if one fails 🙂

 

[Scol]

Chris, bit harsh, I most certainly do not have more money than sense and have chosen an option that I believe best fits my complete circumstances (not all of which I am willing to share on a public forum).

I am very happy to take advice, in fact the advice that I have paid for is to fit a boiler that may be excessive for my needs hence seeking some friendly second opinions.

Thanks

 

[chris watkins]

Fair enough, but if you don't want to give the full story the people on hear can't help you & you will get a reaction like mine.

This design lark is not based of guesses we need hard facts.

I think you may have got an idea from the reaction so far that the advice you claim to have paid for is unsound. Take some freely offered, find a professional in whom you can trust, tell them your requirements & let them do there job, some of us are very good at what we do but do have the cheek to ask for a small payment for this service.

Good luck

 

[Ray Stafford]

Why are you so anti LPG, is it largely down to cost/sustainability?

Most installers in the UK would only use LPG for two reasons

1) For mobility - caravans, boats etc or
2) Because there is a reasonable hope of connection to mains gas in the near future - in which case it makes sense to put in LPG equipment which can easily be converted

Its more expensive than oil and obviously much more expensive than mains gas. It also has some unpleasant tricks up its sleeve, particularly if your property has a cellar.

 

[Scol]

I think I have given as much information as I can and all that has been requested, the rest is between me and my bank manager 🙂

I am in the process of getting another professional to take over the job but having been bitten once, I am understandably a little reluctant to just blindly believe what I am told without doing a bit of independent research and it is thanks to people like yourself being generous enough to share their time, wisdom and experience on forums like this that I can.

 

[lame plumber]

The property is circa 3500 Square feet.

Lame Plumber, I think most people could work out how to steal oil but most would not have a clue with Gas but I agree that that anyone who is truly determined will find a way and they would probably steal your pellets too 🙂

Why are you so anti LPG, is it largely down to cost/sustainability?

Thanks for your help.

because even the rich regret installing lpg to heat their houses when the bills come in, hence why one often ends up ripping out lpg appliances and in my case installing oil appliances as the costs are extortionate for lpg, but you cant be advicing those that wont listen, until their wallets hurt !

 

[Nostrum]

Never mind having your oil pinched, your getting robbed before the Calor wagon even rolls up on L.P.G

That said, if it's unoccupied for long periods at a time then maybe it'll work. I've known owners of 2-3 bed park homes cry at the cost of LPG, let alone a 3500 sq ft farm house.

even so, 40kw & 2 boilers is probably not needed just about. Save the extra expense and put it into calor shares.

 

[Ermintrude]

I wholly agree with the LPG comments.

I hope you haven't bought any rads. Oversize rads massively like 300%

Two reasons . 1 your LPG boilers can run at a lower temp and save you money. 2. Next year when installing ASHP you won't need to make any changes.

Make sure your pipe work is right too. 35mm to unvented cylinder and 35mm to the heating manifold .

Put every rad or group of rads on their own zone. This will make your system lots more efficient and future proof. If you are using UNderfloor just run rads off a ufh manifold and just treat a rad like a ufh circ.

If your plumbers clever set up a LLH and a solar unvented cylinder and buy the best cylinder ACV SLME - the mutts nuts . Leave a few legs on the LLH for your new heating components biomass and Thermal store.


Your "plumber " sounds like. Chump or from the dark ages.


I your wanting to control remotely tie in a decent controller (not heatmiser) and you can control each room from your phone too!

Boiler wise two system boilers. Ideal logic 30+ keeps it domestic LPG and will be fine?? have two running circa 300m2 of single glassed nursery 1903 construction no insulation 300l cyl. Toasty ! 2" one pipe jobby

 

[Chalked]

I wholly agree with the LPG comments.

I hope you haven't bought any rads. Oversize rads massively like 300%

Two reasons . 1 your LPG boilers can run at a lower temp and save you money. 2. Next year when installing ASHP you won't need to make any changes.

Make sure your pipe work is right too. 35mm to unvented cylinder and 35mm to the heating manifold .

Put every rad or group of rads on their own zone. This will make your system lots more efficient and future proof. If you are using UNderfloor just run rads off a ufh manifold and just treat a rad like a ufh circ.

If your plumbers clever set up a LLH and a solar unvented cylinder and buy the best cylinder ACV SLME - the mutts nuts . Leave a few legs on the LLH for your new heating components biomass and Thermal store.


Your "plumber " sounds like. Chump or from the dark ages.


I your wanting to control remotely tie in a decent controller (not heatmiser) and you can control each room from your phone too!

Why not heatmiser ermi? Was thinking of getting one for a job to control two heating zones and hot water.
back to lpg.
i have a well insulated mid 90s detached 3 bed house. I'm miserly with the heating. I'm on a district lpg system, 4 properties. £135 a month and I'm £250 in arrears! Should catch up during summer

 

[Scol]

Thanks all,

I was as generous with the rad specs as I could be but it was not possible to oversize by 300% as it would have cost way too much, not fit into the available space and would completely dominate the rooms.

Points taken re LPG, have not heard anything that would change my decision though because a free tank, £500 free gas, a reasonable initial lock-in rate and low anticipated usage all combine to actually make it quite cost effective for my application but I completely understand that it might not be a good choice for others. Also, as security is a real consideration, it would only take one significant theft of oil to make the case for it look far less attractive.

Any final thoughts on boiler choice or sizing please?

 

[Worcester]

I'm sure your plumber can advise. Based on his other advice, he'll probably suggest a Worcester, and I'm not sure whatever is suggested here will counter any suggestion from him. You have clearly taken your own counsel before asking for advice on other matters and then rejected all the advice given foc from some of the top, most respected people in the UK

Taking EVERYTHING into account that you have said so far, I am at a loss to provide further advice as you have made some very expensive decisions.

 

[chris watkins]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Totally, what a waste of time.

If only one of us had said "yes thats right mate, shove one in that is twice as big as you need" all would be well in the world.

 

[Scol]

Wow, what a hostile forum this is, why so rude and personal?

I did not ask for any advice at all on LPG, all that I tried to do was explain my choice (one that I cannot change) when challenged on it. I have already bought Rads so again, not much that I can do about that, what I needed was advice on a boiler spec, what I got from some was a load of abuse and unhelpful comments that go a long way towards explaining why some of your fellow "professionals" earn themselves such a poor reputation.

My thanks to all of the true professionals who have made sincere and positive contributions, I will take on board what you have said to help me make a more informed choice of boiler and plumber/heating engineer, I really do appreciate the help. As to the rest of you, if you are not willing to give advice freely and to help others less well informed than yourselves, perhaps you are not cut out to participate in a public forum.

 

[doitmyself]

When determining the capacity for the rads and underfloor, all of this and more was taken into account using available on-line calculators.

I tend to cringe when I read that someone has used an online rad calculator. Most are not worth using. If you don't use a comprehensive one such as Stelrad Stars, this one is much better than most.

Radiator Size and Heat Output Calculator

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes sizing on delta 30 and 300% over may be slight capital outlay but it would make that free £500 last a bit longer. I would rather burn my own body hair for heat than LPG.

Don't want to seem too much of a know it all, but please can I say I told you so. Hold that for about 9 months then allow it to resonate around you