Hot water cylinder replacement

[brian_mk]

I need to replace a leaking hot water cyclinder.
So far I've contacted about 4 plumbers but none have got back to me, so I'm considering tackling the job myself.



I have bought a drop in replacement cylinder with connections in the exact same positions.
I'm hoping to re-use the existing immersion heater as it has never actually been used.

My question is...

Will there be enough 'give' in the pipework to allow me to remove the old cylinder without cutting pipes?
As far as I can see, it means lifting the hot water outlet pipe up by about 1" to pull it out of the compression fitting to allow the cylinder to be slid to the right to remove the pipes to the coil. The horizontal 22mm section of pipe is about 20" long and the fittings are soldered.

The cold feed to the right has a conex conector at the top of the photo just below a gate valve.
You can't easily get to the elbow fitting at the bottom right of the cyclinder.
I'm hoping there will be enough give in the pipework to pull the cold feed pipe down and out of the compression fitting.

 

[chris watkins]

Of course you hold the Part G & L competency, as required by the Building Regulations & will insure that the work is fully complaint with both of these ??
(as this is a controlled service i.e. Boilers or cylinders)

 

[brian_mk]

Thanks, that's really helpful...

Of course you hold the Part G & L competency, as required by the Building Regulations & will insure that the work is fully complaint with both of these ??
(as this is a controlled service i.e. Boilers or cylinders)

If I could find someone qualified to do the job then I wouldn't have to worry about trying to do it myslef. What else am I supposed to do after trying 4 different plumbers? No one seems interested in doing the work.

 

[Mike Jackson]

If you do the work yourself you'll need a new immersion as I doubt it will comply with the safety requirements that are needed today.

Have you tried posting on the need a plumber section on here?

You'll also find that a lot of plumbers aren't interested in fitting materials that the customer has supplied themselves as they have no control of the quality of the materials supplied.

 

[chris watkins]

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]
Have you tried posting your requirements & location on here ??
or the find a Plumber on the CIPHE web site.
It is a nice little job for Plumber but can cause you loads of grief if you do not know what you are doing.
Email them over the photo, some can be real aggro, this one is a nice one, if you know what you are doing.

 

[brian_mk]

I'm not totally incompetant when it comes to plumbing - my father was a professional plumber for over 50 years until he passed away this year. He taught me most of the basics and I have access to all his tools & equipment.

I just wanted some simple advice as to whether it would be better to cut the horizontal hot water outlet pipe and fit a compression joint or whether the pipe should have enough spring to simply lift it from the top fitting.

 

[Killy Bing]

I'm not totally incompetant when it comes to plumbing - my father was a professional plumber for over 50 years until he passed away this year. He taught me most of the basics and I have access to all his tools & equipment.

I just wanted some simple advice as to whether it would be better to cut the horizontal hot water outlet pipe and fit a compression joint or whether the pipe should have enough spring to simply lift it from the top fitting.

And that is what you find out, when you actually do it!!
it might do, might not 🙂

As you're clearly going to do it yourself.

Get up and clean both tanks out while it is drained
change the immersion for a new one.
If you intend on staying in that house check the age of the three port and pump and decide if you wish to update them while you have the opportunity.
strengthen the base where it has leaked.

have a number of a plumber ready incase things don't go to plan.

Good luck and let us know how it goes

 

[Howsie]

I would imagine that you would be able to do that without cutting anything, but if you do have to compression fittings will be fine. As stated, sort the base out and have the number of a plumber (that calls you back) just in case.

Good luck!

 

[Meady]

Where abouts are you located?

 

[erpkid]

The only problem you will have is that the new cylinder will have thicker insulation so you will have to shorten some of the pipework. If you are going to DIY get a stainless cylinder with welded unions. Less chance of damage when you tighten up the compressions fitting to the irons..as there aren't any.

 

[lame plumber]

first problem youll have is the doc wont work!!!1

 

[erpkid]

first problem youll have is the doc wont work!!!1

True :sweatdrop:

 

[Rickster123]

What an unhelpful bunch we are these days. Go for it! Ont touch the gate valve. Just drain the tank as well. There will be enough movement in the hot pipe, disconnect the compression coupling on the cold feed. Don't forget to drain the heating and add inhibitor. Treat yourself to a new immersion heater.

 

[lame plumber]

i had a call today fm a disgruntled diyer who had sheared off his cold feed gate valve on his cyl. At 5 30pm he didnt get why any of the plumbers he called werent interested in fitting a new one NOW!. his comment of I know what I am doing, having admitted he kept turning the siezed valve till it freewheeled !, he expected us all to be sat in our chairs waiting for his call, and when I said mondayt pm at the earliest he flipped, so down went my phone. sorry ap some members of the public horde just dont get it.

 

[Dotty]

Not only that but vented cylinders now fall under part G3 too!

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_G_2010_V2.pdf

Vented hot water storage systems

3.12
Vented hot water storage systems should incorporate a vent pipe of an adequate size, but not less than 19mm internal diameter, connecting the top of the hot water storage vessel to a point open to the atmosphere above and over the level of the water in the cold water storage cistern.

3.13
In addition to the vent pipe referred to in 3.12 and any thermostat provided to control the temperature of the stored water to a desired temperature, vented hot water storage systems should incorporate either:
a. for all direct heat sources, a non-self-resetting energy cut-out to disconnect the supply of heat to the storage vessel in the event of the storage system overheating; and, for all indirect heat sources, an overheat cut-out to disconnect the supply of heat to the storage vessel in the event of the stored water overheating so that the temperature of the stored water does not exceed 100°C; or
b. an appropriate safety device, for example, a temperature relief valve or a combined temperature and pressure relief valve to safely discharge the water in the event of significant over heating.

3.14
Vent pipes should discharge over a cold water storage cistern conforming to BS 417-2:1987 Specification for galvanized low carbon steel cisterns, cistern lids, tanks and cylinders. Metric units; or BS 4213:2004 Cisterns for domestic use. Cold water storage and combined feed and expansion (thermoplastic) cisterns up to 500 litres. Specification; as appropriate.

3.15
The cold water storage cistern into which the vent pipe discharges should be supported on a flat, level, rigid platform which is capable of safely withstanding the weight of the cistern when filled with water to the rim and fully supporting the bottom of the cistern over the whole of its area. The platform should extend a minimum of 150mm in all directions beyond the edge of the maximum dimensions of the cistern.
Note: Where an existing metal cistern is replaced, or a plastic cistern is replaced by one with larger dimensions, the existing support should be upgraded, as necessary, with one in accordance with paragraph 3.15.

3.16
The cistern should be accessible for maintenance, cleaning and replacement.

 

[erpkid]

If this were CSI Plumbing the OP has fitted into a profile which we have seen many times before imho. However the OP has now been given enough good advice to sort the job. The schizoid character of this forum remains and should be celebrated.

 

[kay-jay]

Not only that but unvented cylinders now fall under part G3 too!

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_G_2010_V2.pdf

Vented hot water storage systems
3.12
Vented
hot water storage systems
should incorporate a vent pipe of an adequate
size, but not less than 19mm internal diameter,
connecting the top of the hot water storage
vessel to a point open to the atmosphere above
and over the level of the water in the cold water
storage cistern.
3.13
In addition to the vent pipe referred to
in 3.12 and any thermostat provided to control
the temperature of the stored water to a desired
temperature, vented
hot water storage systems
should incorporate either:
a. for all direct heat sources, a non-self-resetting
energy cut-out to disconnect the supply of
heat to the storage vessel in the event of the
storage system overheating; and,
for all indirect heat sources, an overheat
cut-out to disconnect the supply of heat to
the storage vessel in the event of the stored
water overheating so that the temperature of
the stored water does not exceed 100°C; or
b. an appropriate safety device, for example,
a
temperature relief valve
or a
combined
temperature and pressure relief valve
to
safely discharge the water in the event of
significant over heating.
3.14
Vent pipes should discharge over a cold
water storage cistern conforming to BS 417-
2:1987
Specification for galvanized low carbon
steel cisterns, cistern lids, tanks and cylinders.
Metric units;
or BS 4213:2004
Cisterns for
domestic use. Cold water storage and combined
feed and expansion (thermoplastic) cisterns up to
500 litres. Specification;
as appropriate.
3.15
The cold water storage cistern into which
the vent pipe discharges should be supported
on a flat, level, rigid platform which is capable
of safely withstanding the weight of the cistern
when filled with water to the rim and fully
supporting the bottom of the cistern over the
whole of its area. The platform should extend a
minimum of 150mm in all directions beyond the
edge of the maximum dimensions of the cistern.
Note:
Where an existing metal cistern is
replaced, or a plastic cistern is replaced by one
with larger dimensions, the existing support
should be upgraded, as necessary, with one in
accordance with paragraph 3.15.
3.16
The cistern should be accessible for
maintenance, cleaning and replacement.

You mean vented.
As I understand it it is not mandatory that a g3 is held for vented installations but those without g3 have to notify as they cant self certify.

 

[Dotty]

You mean vented.
As I understand it it is not mandatory that a g3 is held for vented installations but those without g3 have to notify as they cant self certify.

You're quite right, I meant vented........

It won't be long before vented cylinders have to be notified, mark my words!

 

[Dotty]

If this were CSI Plumbing the OP has fitted into a profile which we have seen many times before imho. However the OP has now been given enough good advice to sort the job. The schizoid character of this forum remains and should be celebrated.

Meaning what precisely?

 

[tamz]

You mean vented.
As I understand it it is not mandatory that a g3 is held for vented installations but those without g3 have to notify as they cant self certify.

Just shows how low standards in the trade have fallen when your average plumber can't be trusted to fit a cylinder properly 😱mg_smile:

 

[erpkid]

Meaning what precisely?

Probably better in the arms. However we do swing from being incredibly helpful to less than at times - I know this is old ground. Hardly surprising as most here make their living from plumbing. Understandably we are occasionally in two minds with certain opening posts.

 

[Ermintrude]

Certification is a load of tosh, more eurocrat nonsense. It just pushes incompetence further under radar.

Idiots don't pay any attention and never get stopped. Gas safe is so badly policed g3 may aswell be gummy bears.

 

[mountainman]

Certification is a load of tosh, more eurocrat nonsense. It just pushes incompetence further under radar.

Idiots don't pay any attention and never get stopped. Gas safe is so badly policed g3 may aswell be gummy bears.

Fair comment!

 

[AWheating]

go for it, let us know how you get on.

 

[stevetheplumber]

What an unhelpful bunch we are these days. Go for it! Ont touch the gate valve. Just drain the tank as well. There will be enough movement in the hot pipe, disconnect the compression coupling on the cold feed. Don't forget to drain the heating and add inhibitor. Treat yourself to a new immersion heater.

i agree app which is why i rarely post on here now days everyone want to quote various rules and regs and taking the pee out of anyone who wants to have a go

 

[stevetheplumber]

i would just drain everything and while its out change the gate valve for a lever type valve
the drain of might not work so drain as much as you can take the top connector out put the hose in and syphon the water out if your hose doesnt fit through the hole use a couple of feet of 15mm tube and connect the hose to that
disconnect the cold feed at the valve and the two primary connections then you can slide the cylinder out or spin it to get at the bottom connection
as said i would get a new imersion as much as anything it saves you struggling to get the old one out
if you realy want to reuse it loosen it before you drain system as the water will hold the cylinder more rigid

 

[brian_mk]

i had a call today fm a disgruntled diyer who had sheared off his cold feed gate valve on his cyl. At 5 30pm he didnt get why any of the plumbers he called werent interested in fitting a new one NOW!. his comment of I know what I am doing, having admitted he kept turning the siezed valve till it freewheeled !, he expected us all to be sat in our chairs waiting for his call, and when I said mondayt pm at the earliest he flipped, so down went my phone. sorry ap some members of the public horde just dont get it.

The gate valve is ok - I check them all once or twice a year to make sure they don't seize.
However, if I do the job myself, I will probably drain the cold tank just in case the valve doesn't close off completely.
The tank probably needs a clean out in any case.

 

[brian_mk]

The only problem you will have is that the new cylinder will have thicker insulation so you will have to shorten some of the pipework. If you are going to DIY get a stainless cylinder with welded unions. Less chance of damage when you tighten up the compressions fitting to the irons..as there aren't any.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense...

The dimensions for a standard 900mm x 450mm copper cylinder are measured WITHOUT the insulation. So even if the replacement cylinder had thicker insulation, the pipework would not have to be shortened as you suggest. In fact, the replacement copper cylinder I have already bought has the same foam thickness as the existing one.

 

[SimonG]

I love threads like this. Does anybody think for one minute that the op will come back and say that his ceiling came down as it all went pear shaped?

To the op, you have enough info to give it a go, and good luck, but, if it does go pear shaped 'who ya gonna call' 🙂

 

[Killy Bing]

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense...

The dimensions for a standard 900mm x 450mm copper cylinder are measured WITHOUT the insulation. So even if the replacement cylinder had thicker insulation, the pipework would not have to be shortened as you suggest. In fact, the replacement copper cylinder I have already bought has the same foam thickness as the existing one.

Erp said that due to the side oft he cylinder touching the wall.
we don't know the age of the cylinder, we automaticly assume its rather old with little foam.
obviously its a more recent one.

and how do we know what thickness the foam is on your replacement?

it wasn't suggested, you're being advised you might have to do it.

he outlined a possible problem, be greatful

 

[brian_mk]

I love threads like this. Does anybody think for one minute that the op will come back and say that his ceiling came down as it all went pear shaped?

To the op, you have enough info to give it a go, and good luck, but, if it does go pear shaped 'who ya gonna call' 🙂

That's what worries me. I'd rather get someone else to do it, but good plumbers are like rocking horse poo.

 

[Killy Bing]

No swearing!

where are you based, plenty on this forum.

 

[SimonG]

That's what worries me. I'd rather get someone else to do it, but good plumbers are like rocking horse sh*t.

I know exactly where you are coming from. The number of times that people are surprised that you return a call or turn up on time to look at a job. Annoys me a little that people can't return calls, but that's a different thread. Can't get a recommendation from friends, relatives, colleagues or neighbours?

 

[tamz]

Erp said that due to the side oft he cylinder touching the wall.
we don't know the age of the cylinder, we automaticly assume its rather old with little foam.
obviously its a more recent one.

and how do we know what thickness the foam is on your replacement?

it wasn't suggested, you're being advised you might have to do it.

he outlined a possible problem, be greatful

Have you never had to take the saw to the insulation to get it in the space ?
It is easily shaved.

 

[Killy Bing]

Have you never had to take the saw to the insulation to get it in the space ?
It is easily shaved.

Of course but thats the only thing i can think of erp mentioning it.

 

[Dotty]

Brian, going by your name I reckon you're Milton Keynes way.

Apologies if your confidence has taken a knock. Wasn't intended.

Follow Steve's advice. I would use all new fittings when you dress the cylinder too.

But if you are getting a squeaky bum then you might want someone off here to do it for you.

post a thread in the 'I'm looking for a plumber / gas engineer' section of these forums remembering to include your location - [DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]

 

[happyflyer]

For God sack first take out those stupid bearers under the cylinder and replace it with two pieces of heavy ply that cover the whole base, lets get the stresses right on the rolled bottom edge of the cylinder. Now the chances of getting a replacement cylinder where the connection are 100% spot on is remote, the new cylinder may look and appear to measure up ok, if the new one is out on one connection slightly it may well push the rest out. This guy needs to know this, if any connections are out pulling the pipe even 1/2" may cause him leaks he can't tighten up, and no amount of PTFE will stop it leaking, the DOC Drain off cock like someone has already said is destine to fail, I would change the 22 mm connex connector for a gate valve and you may have two them but what the hell. If things don't line up he will be into soldering, if he is in a hard water area like someone say he might well rip off a union, yet again we don't know where he lives and member might live around the corner and would no doubt have it out and filled up in 60 mins, you could charge half a day and be in the pub by 12. :sweatdrop:

 

[lame plumber]

funny Iwas taught to use bearers under a cyl to allow for air flow and prevent condensation etc so the base doesnt corrode out. different methods for all around the country. why else do unvented cyls have nice little legs on them

 

[happyflyer]

funny Iwas taught to use bearers under a cyl to allow for air flow and prevent condensation etc so the base doesnt corrode out. different methods for all around the country. why else do unvented cyls have nice little legs on them

Not for that reason lame, the bottom of the SS vessel is convex to take the pressure and it needs the legs to stop it rolling over like a doll in a budgies cage.

 

[lame plumber]

still I always use bearers under copper cyls as taught by blokes with grey hair and only use ply under cwsc as per the regs.

 

[SimonG]

The bottom line is that there's no magic to changing a cylinder, if it goes ok, the magic or craft comes when it goes pear shaped and you can sort it without breaking a sweat.

 

[happyflyer]

still I always use bearers under copper cyls as taught by blokes with grey hair and only use ply under cwsc as per the regs.

Lame Ply wasn't invented then that's the only reason they didn't use it, that practice was never used up North, always flat on the floor, I think it more like the spread on chipboard floors and if it ever got flooded the cylinder would be in the lounge downstairs. Hell of a bad practice you look at the edge under a copper cylinder and 2 bits of 3 x 2 puts a load on a very small area. I have a mega flow proper feet, no need for crap bits of off cuts, anyway it looks a mess too, looks like a joiner got involved.

 

[lame plumber]

Lame Ply wasn't invented then that's the only reason they didn't use it, that practice was never used up North, always flat on the floor, I think it more like the spread on chipboard floors and if it ever got flooded the cylinder would be in the lounge downstairs. Hell of a bad practice you look at the edge under a copper cylinder and 2 bits of 3 x 2 puts a load on a very small area. I have a mega flow proper feet, no need for crap bits of off cuts, anyway it looks a mess too, looks like a joiner got involved.

time you northeners started to pop back to college for some retraining, or is Mr Blower wrong when he says "it is important to make provision for air movement under the storage vessel by standing it on battens. Failure to do so will result in the formation of condensation, causing damage to the wooden or chipboard flooring" page 196 para 2 book one of Plumbing mechanical services as used by those taking their city and guilds. millions of plumbers cant be wrong 🙂

 

[happyflyer]

When did a million plumbers ever take their City & Guilds, training at B&Q on Sunday morning maybe, I suppose if its in a textbook somewhere lame it must be right,
or in a building regulation somewhere, hell I give in, you got me bang to rights, does it tell you how far apart the 3 x 2 should be

 

[SimonG]

How out three strips of 3 x 2 with ply on top with holes drilled in it for ventilation?

 

[happyflyer]

Now that would look much better Simon, but Simon when and where would this so called condensation form

 

[lame plumber]

to spread the weight evenly according to my old mates, and if you can have them at 90 degrees to the joists even better. well if there are over 100,000 gas safe guys out there there must be 10 fold more pumbers past and present and I hope to god your the only one shopping at B & Q on a Sunday, as Ray wont be happy and wheres your pride gone 🙂

 

[happyflyer]

1. I've recently tried to find if a regulation exists for bearings for standard hot water cylinders, our local building control say there's nowt and cylinder manufacturers say the same but I have a quality control fella in our office asking why I havn't put all sorts of board and bearing configurations under, any help would be gratefully received !
   
   
   
   Lame the above just got off a website, what dust ya make of this
   
   Tony

 

[happyflyer]

• Hi all
  I am a newbuild home owner with 4 years to run on my nhbc warranty however this does not cover my leaking hot water tank.I believe that this tank may have been fitted incorrectly and that this has been the cause of the leak.The tank (900x450 indirect cylinder)is supported on 2 pieces of wood 40mm x 25mm and 230mm apart which does not support the whole base of the tank.The tank is raised by 25mm.Is this correct as I have been told the whole base needs to be fully supported??Now fighting with builder to make good on the repair.
  Thanks in advance.
  
  
  Lame mmmmmmm another one for thalbum
  
  Read on!!!
  
  
  http://community.NoLinkingToThis/th...er-tank-causing-it-too-leak.77741/#post-77741​

 

[lame plumber]

cmon, have some pride, you go on the screwfixforum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tamz]

It is good practice to fit cylinders on a flat ply base rather than bearers so the cylinder is fully supported. The risk of condensation below on is virtualy non existent if the cylinder is in use.

Bearers are the cause of a high number of cylinders failing as the movement due to expansion and contraction eventually rubs through at the point of contact.
If the cylinder is fully supported the pressure is spread across the full rim.
Next time you remove one that has just been sat on a chipboard floor have a look at the ring that has been worn into the board due to thermal movement.

Years ago we used to mount the cylinder halfway up the kitchen wall sitting on a bit angle iron or 1" mi cut into the brickwork across a corner. All the old heads knew the cylinder would fail at the point of contact so would place a bit sheet lead on the bar to help extend the tanks life.

Just not so common sense really.

Btw pet cocks should be banned but thankfully up this way the standard practice for a cylinder drain off is a sludge cock piped to outside.

 

[happyflyer]

It is good practice to fit cylinders on a flat ply base rather than bearers so the cylinder is fully supported. The risk of condensation below on is virtualy non existent if the cylinder is in use.

Bearers are the cause of a high number of cylinders failing as the movement due to expansion and contraction eventually rubs through at the point of contact.
If the cylinder is fully supported the pressure is spread across the full rim.
Next time you remove one that has just been sat on a chipboard floor have a look at the ring that has been worn into the board due to thermal movement.

Years ago we used to mount the cylinder halfway up the kitchen wall sitting on a bit angle iron or 1" mi cut into the brickwork across a corner. All the old heads knew the cylinder would fail at the point of contact so would place a bit sheet lead on the bar to help extend the tanks life.

Just not so common sense really.

Btw pet cocks should be banned but thankfully up this way the standard practice for a cylinder drain off is a sludge cock piped to outside.

Hell Tamz I thought I was going mad thanks for the support and I apologise for everything we ever did to you and you kind in the past, you know Braveheart and all that, can't watch the end of that film ever again, anyway proper support sod the condensation balderdash


Tony

 

[happyflyer]

BTW we never asked this chap where the existing cylinder is leaking, hell I hope it's on one of the 3 x 2 I will sleep well tonight if it is...:60: he's probably fitted the new one whilst we are arguing the toss over condensation, BTW I surely can't have failed due to condensation, he's down the pub now laughing at us, how we made it sound so difficult to do.

 

[tamz]

Looks like it might be from the bottom seam Tony.

Apology accepted :lol:

 

[happyflyer]

Looks like it might be from the bottom seam Tony.

Apology accepted :lol:

Seams to me it might be :30:

OMG just thought Tamz he will be fitting it back on the 3 x 2., mind you I will be gone the next time it leaks, morte I mean.

 

[lame plumber]

must be the water down here but never had a corroded out cyl on bearers only on the ones flat on the floor. It's great to see tamz and I can still disagree again 🙂

 

[tamz]

They don't corrode on the bearers they rub through due to movement through expansion and contaction.
The seam on a grade 3 is a welt of 1.2 and 0.7mm copper brazed at the seam. If you know how a welted joint is made you will know that the thickness of the part to rub through is the 0.7mm.

Yu know me Jon. I can cause an argument in an emtpy shop too :lol:

 

[oily face]

a square paving slab cover with some 10 mm ply makes a good platform for a cylinder

 

[lame plumber]

If I could guarentee tamz or croppie was my secret santa it would be single malts in the box, but who else could I trust on here 🙂

 

[tamz]

If I could guarentee tamz or croppie was my secret santa it would be single malts in the box, but who else could I trust on here 🙂

Posted north i hope :smile:

 

[Walis]

They don't corrode on the bearers they rub through due to movement through expansion and contaction.
The seam on a grade 3 is a welt of 1.2 and 0.7mm copper brazed at the seam. If you know how a welted joint is made you will know that the thickness of the part to rub through is the 0.7mm.

That's why i think the stainless steel cylinders are better than copper ones. Thermal expansion of SS is much less than copper. Every joint is welded and warranty for SS cylidners is usually 10 years compared to 2 yrs for copper ones.

Btw copper cylinders are soldered or brazed? For me it's looks like soldered.

( I know, my english is not perfect )

 

[Howsie]

They don't corrode on the bearers they rub through due to movement through expansion and contaction.
The seam on a grade 3 is a welt of 1.2 and 0.7mm copper brazed at the seam. If you know how a welted joint is made you will know that the thickness of the part to rub through is the 0.7mm.

Yu know me Jon. I can cause an argument in an emtpy shop too :lol:

Is there anything you don't know?

 

[kay-jay]

Is there anything you don't know?

I seem to remember from all his many posts that there was one thing he didnt know....and that thing wasn't worth knowing

 

[tamz]

The price of bread :smile:

Absolutely not my department so no interest.

 

[tamz]

Btw copper cylinders are soldered or brazed? For me it's looks like soldered.

Brazed

 

[Ermintrude]

All cylinders up here are on cross shaped barer. Halving joints. Some of the Charles church ones have beveled edges. Not had many failures on support rim just corroded on welt.

 

[tamz]

Charles Church.
The bastion of plumbing integrity and good practice among builders.

Builders couldn't give 2 fks as long as it lasts the 10 year nhbc stuff and is cheap.

 

[lame plumber]

Mr C Church, failed spitfire pilot fm memory, seemed to be one of the better building firms down south for a while, then he spent his money on a plane he couldnt fly!

 

[Toxic Ted]

If I could guarentee tamz or croppie was my secret santa it would be single malts in the box, but who else could I trust on here 🙂

Not for a tenner you wont lol

 

[lame plumber]

only be 1/3 full 🙂

 

[tamz]

Skinflint :lol:

 

[Best]

Cylinder sitting on wood bearers has the advantage that you can check condition of copper base & any source of leaks with a torch & a mirror. Timber should be 2" height. If the timber was about 3" wide also & 3 pieces were used, then very little of the cylinder rim will be unsupported (standard cylinder has a 14" diameter base). Proper way to position the timber was to put the outer two slightly outside the rim edge, thus covering a substantial part of the entire rim & also making the cylinder stable.
Can't see there being much difference in thermal movement on all of the base contacting or on just some of it?
The corrosion I see is either due to the stupid aluminium anodes causing corrosion in base, or the water in certain areas.

 

[happyflyer]

I wonder if Brian_mk the author of the original post would be kind enough to put the record straight and show us by way of a photo where the sodding cylinder is leaking, perhaps he has taken a look at this thread and thought this lot have not got a clue what they are talking about and he will never darken our doorstep again, if it is leaking on the bottom due to the 3 x 2 and he puts he back on the 3 x 2 he too will have learnt nowt, on the other hand if its leaking from a brazing on a seam or a boss unconnected with the 3 x 2 he will be confident the the 3 x 2 has saved the day with regard to all the good advice dished out on the protection of the base of a cylinder by the onset of condensation, phew!


Tony