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View the thread, titled "How many people are thinking of doing renewables this year" which is posted in Renewables on UK Plumbers Forums.
I'll be the one defiantly doing heat pump+ground source heat pump +solar+underfloor heating ! just need some work experience before I do the actual training Mike ! +need to get oil and LPG ! is a shame all this hard study I did on natural gas 🙁
I am interested in solar thermal, the cost of things is too much for me though so i cant see me doing it anytime soon and I still think there won't be much of a market up here at the moment due to the cost
M
MickW
It was recently announced that the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) will be rolled out in Scotland as well as England, so I guess demand will increase when that happens.
do you think this is better then the manufacture ?...as if I do manufacture one I can then not have match problem installing there products as when on training well get hands on it ! speaking of worcester .
M
MickW
Truthfully, no!
The last time I spoke to DECC they said that the RHPP, which is the grant part of it would be announced during the week of June 6th, but that didn't happen. Now they are saying "as soon as possible", but my guess is that it will be in the next week or so.
I'm told that the RHPP grant for solar thermal will be £300, if the kit & installer are MCS accredited, and that the installation will be eligible for the RHI starting in October next year. The actual figure for the incentive hasn't been announced yet either.
Although the fact that the government are dragging their feet on this is actually damaging the renewables industry, I have to say that I'm not sorry as it gives me a little more time to get the whole industry behind my campaign to have small business exempt from the OTT paperwork side (QMS) of MCS.
Trade Only: Over-regulation is the Biggest Barrier to Renewable take-up
We are getting there! Pretty well all the major boiler manufacturers are 100% behind it as well as the Chartered Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering (CIPHE) and plenty of influential bods from industry. I meeting with the main men from the MCS steering group next Tuesday, so fingers crossed!
only £300 ???? wasnt that long ago the government gave you £400 towards a new boiler.
T
That Extra Mile
The MCS must be simplified to allow easier access for smaller firms. The Renewables market won't thrive unless both large and small companies are able to compete effectively. Thanks to all of those who are working to make this happen.
M
MickW
That's true, but don't forget that this time they get the £300 and possibly a similar amount every year for the next 20 years.
That will create a demand and is exactly why I am working so hard to remove this barrier for small business.
Did you know it was me that started the petition and campaign for the boiler scrappage scheme?
I've got to shoot out now, but I'll come back later and tell you about the figures for installations and who fitted what in boiler scrappage boilers.
K
Kimou
It's a no-brainer. Of course I'm going to get into it. You'd be nuts not to.
It's a bit like asking Pamela Anderson if she'd do x-rated once her career's going downhill...oh wait, she did! :dizzy2:
Once the Consumer Market sees the difference between the working practises of plumbers compared to the jump-on-the-band-wagon merchants then our neatness and practicality will win hands down. Look how many times you see the work of builders that throw in bathrooms themselves. That's never going to change. No pride, you see.
It's a bit like asking Pamela Anderson if she'd do x-rated once her career's going downhill...oh wait, she did! :dizzy2:
Once the Consumer Market sees the difference between the working practises of plumbers compared to the jump-on-the-band-wagon merchants then our neatness and practicality will win hands down. Look how many times you see the work of builders that throw in bathrooms themselves. That's never going to change. No pride, you see.
T
That Extra Mile
Realize we're off on a tangent here but the campaign to reduce VAT on boilers to 5% is important too. We're London based - most Victorian/Georgian houses/flats are small and poorly insulated with very little space outside. Heat pumps and biomass aren't suitable, solar thermal might work but only if space is available inside and you own the roof! The Government needs to understand that in these cases renewables aren't an option. The answer? Incentivise people to upgrade to the next best thing - modern 'A' rated boilers with up to date controls.
G
Guest123
Mmmm, solar in Scotland? Can you point me in the nearest direction of the sunshine mate? LOL
I completely agree with this post and here in lies the problem, we as heating engineers know this, or should do whereas the big companies using sales reps and semi trained installers do not, we also have the same problem out in the country side with old buildings, therefore it is in my opinion that our industry is no longer splintered and that more focus be made of fit for purpose installs and the whole industry needs to be encompassed under one body instead of being fractured with specialists trying to convince the customers that an inapropriate system is the only and best option
M
MickW
Yes, it is off topic, but you're absolutely right and last year's Boiler Scrappage scheme prove that the householder is up for reducing their fuel consumption and, at the same time, reducing their CO2 emissions.
A campaign for another day, perhaps, I've got enough on my plate pushing this one!!! 🙂
yeah I seen earlier on this forum that you started that campaign, good job on that one ! lets hope this campaign is also succsessful 🙂
T
tackleburger
Mike very good post and excellent link and I thank you for the constructive campaign, which clearly has little counter argument. I have witnessed MCS companies work several times as most of them don't return as they trade far and wide. On one occasion we found an air source heat pump in an attic! They came back, removed it because the owner found it too noisy and fitted a solar thermal system to house with two people in it and a 200 litre cylinder. Worse still as the attached photo shows the boiler flow goes via the cylinder on its way to the pump. So whenever the heating is on the lady's water was scolding hot. So in terms of consumer confidence what would we rather have loads of jobs like this with lots of rubber stamped paper in a file? Or a quality job with a local , often family business who are properly trained and actually care about their reputation, the latter is important and it is the essence of the decision on QMS really.
Attachments
Did you know the Boiler scrappage scheme has reopened up in Scotland again? Its being kept very quiet as far as the public know.
Ive done a bit of training on Heat pumps and I'm looking into Solar for possibly next year. I would like to go on the C & G 2399 but no one up here does it so I did the BPEC one to satisfy the MCS requirements. I also did the Mitsubishi Ecodan training courses as they are just along the road from me.
I think that Renewables are the way forward for our industry but as already mentioned we need to get the basics sorted out first, no good putting a heat pump or solar unit on a system that doesn't work or a house poorly insulated.
Ive done a bit of training on Heat pumps and I'm looking into Solar for possibly next year. I would like to go on the C & G 2399 but no one up here does it so I did the BPEC one to satisfy the MCS requirements. I also did the Mitsubishi Ecodan training courses as they are just along the road from me.
I think that Renewables are the way forward for our industry but as already mentioned we need to get the basics sorted out first, no good putting a heat pump or solar unit on a system that doesn't work or a house poorly insulated.
F
fuzzy
if the manufacturer decided to change products or move into something else youd need another course. the 2399 is a qcf modern qual that can register you as a national skilled tradesman. for me the manufacturers courses are good for that product only, id do the 2399 and then any particular manufacturer prouct training after, like doing the acs and then worcester fault finding course
M
MickW
Scotland and Ireland are still running a Boiler Scrappage scheme. The best hope that we have in England is that boiler replacement may be included in the Green Deal.
I said I would talk about results for the main scheme last year. Once the scheme was announced, my life went mad! I was interviewed by dozens of radio and TV stations and loads of mags etc and my message was always the same - get more than one quote!
Energy suppliers, like British Gas, immediately said that they would match the governments £400 with another £400, which was an excellent marketing ploy, but I know and you know that they would still be more expensive than an independent installer. By spreading the message for householders to get more than one quote I wanted to ensure that small business got its fair share of the work.
At Baxi's request I went to a studio in London where I was telephone interviewed by a different radio station every 15 minutes for all day - that was stressful, I can tell you!
Anyway, the Guardian produced a report last year showing that the Energy Suppliers were on average a third more expensive than independents (no surprise there then!), BUT they only fitted 15% of the replacement boilers! 85% were fitted by independents.
Energy suppliers charged inflated prices in gas boiler scrappage scheme | Money | The Guardian
My fear is that, if the government does not get small installers on board, the figures will be the other way round this time - the big boys will do 85% of renewables and the small guys will dip out.
Hence the campaign to exempt small business from the QMS part of MCS.
I said I would talk about results for the main scheme last year. Once the scheme was announced, my life went mad! I was interviewed by dozens of radio and TV stations and loads of mags etc and my message was always the same - get more than one quote!
Energy suppliers, like British Gas, immediately said that they would match the governments £400 with another £400, which was an excellent marketing ploy, but I know and you know that they would still be more expensive than an independent installer. By spreading the message for householders to get more than one quote I wanted to ensure that small business got its fair share of the work.
At Baxi's request I went to a studio in London where I was telephone interviewed by a different radio station every 15 minutes for all day - that was stressful, I can tell you!
Anyway, the Guardian produced a report last year showing that the Energy Suppliers were on average a third more expensive than independents (no surprise there then!), BUT they only fitted 15% of the replacement boilers! 85% were fitted by independents.
Energy suppliers charged inflated prices in gas boiler scrappage scheme | Money | The Guardian
My fear is that, if the government does not get small installers on board, the figures will be the other way round this time - the big boys will do 85% of renewables and the small guys will dip out.
Hence the campaign to exempt small business from the QMS part of MCS.
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