how to plumb a radiator into my garage ?

[ar22]

My boiler is in my garage and I want to plumb one radiator off it in the garage

The boiler is really tight to the wall and the pipe work is to the wall side so very awkward to tap into

So I have drawn up two plans that might be feasable

Plan A is tapped off the flow side coming out of the boiler that goes up to the pressure expansion vessel, the return is into spare inlet on the easy to get to (might need a non return valve here ??)

Plan B works on the principle of convection

which one can I use or is there a better idea ? or will either work just as well as each other ?

any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[stevetheplumber]

plan b if you can get top tapping of rad higher than the boiler tapping and connect the rad with top and bottom opposite ends connection this would make a gravity loop so higher the rad the better
you can help gravity circuits with low head difference by taking the return lower than the return tapping and then up

 

[Best]

As Stevetheplumber says, you need the rad higher if on a gravity circuit. Sealed system - this still same as open system. The expansion vessel is supposed to be fitted on the return pipe, on the suction side of the pump ( if pump on return). A lot are not though. Would be better pumped, if you could join rad flow after pump & rad return could just be joined to new return.

 

[ar22]

As Stevetheplumber says, you need the rad higher if on a gravity circuit. Sealed system - this still same as open system. The expansion vessel is supposed to be fitted on the return pipe, on the suction side of the pump ( if pump on return). A lot are not though. Would be better pumped, if you could join rad flow after pump & rad return could just be joined to new return.

thanks I did suspect that gravity idea would be dependent on the radiator being raised up, unfortunetly its restricted by it going under a bench

So plan A it is (somehow)
my pump is on the flow side and the vessel on a T between the boiler outlet and the pump, to change this set up would be difficult

to get a T in after the pump would be very difficult as the pump is fitted only a few inches up from the pipe entering the floor

would it be ok to put a tee in as per the diagram between the boiler outlet and the pump on an existing 15mm T up to the vessel and fit a one way valve on the return

or would this upset my perfect working existing heating system

Plan C

My flue is a insulated double skin stainless one, I am considering taking out the bottom 1 metre section and replacing it with an enamel section so that the heat comes into the garage instead of disappearing up into the atmosphere

anything wrong with this plan ??

 

[Best]

I don't like your plan A, as It is on wrong side of pump & might short circuit, rather than giving full flow through boiler. Can't get my head around it, as it is an odd way to do it. Can you not move pump up a little higher & put a brass tee where pump valve was? The flow & return should have been on opposite sides ( strickly speaking) where there are 4 connections - easy to move flow if you had to.

 

[Best]

Using a length of enamelled pipe from boiler would be good if its a standard efficiency boiler, as heat is lost anyway. Surprising how much this is.

 

[ar22]

I don't like your plan A, as It is on wrong side of pump & might short circuit, rather than giving full flow through boiler. Can't get my head around it, as it is an odd way to do it. Can you not move pump up a little higher & put a brass tee where pump valve was? The flow & return should have been on opposite sides where there is are 4 connections - easy to move flow if you had to.

my boiler isnt exactly the same as my diagram (couldnt draw it), the outlet is front top right inside case (worscestor) so flow is diagonal

yes I know your right I should go after the pump but its a tight as get out in that area with the return coming up from the concrete floor beside the flow out and then the boiler is squeezed up against it all,


I will look in the morning to see if I can shift it up a few inches

what you think of my flue idea ? I may as well make use of this wasted flue heat and keep my motorbikes warm

 

[ar22]

Using a length of enamelled pipe from boiler would be good if its a standard efficiency boiler, as heat is lost anyway. Surprising how much this is.

cheers

might not even need rad if I make it long enough

I dont think it would have any effect on the effiency of the boiler, as you say it going up in smoke anyway all 200 odd degrees of it !

cheers

 

[Best]

It actually adds to the efficiency of the boiler!! As it uses some of the otherwise wasted heat. If the boiler was in a small room, you would get room heated well. As you say, 200degrees is a lot hotter than a rad! Turns a standard eff boiler into a high eff nearly!:smartass2:

 

[Best]

You could use 3 or 4 foot enamel, just keep it clear anything combustable! It's not going to heat the garage noticeably, ( unless it's a shed!) but helps keep it dry & keeps the nip off it!

 

[ar22]

I don't like your plan A, as It is on wrong side of pump & might short circuit, rather than giving full flow through boiler. Can't get my head around it, as it is an odd way to do it. Can you not move pump up a little higher & put a brass tee where pump valve was? The flow & return should have been on opposite sides ( strickly speaking) where there are 4 connections - easy to move flow if you had to.

been out and looked

I can move the pump up 4 inches and insert a 15mm T off the 22 after the pump and return via the spare bottom port and fit ball valves so it can be easily isolated

dont know why i didnt think of that in the first place as its probably the easiest and most effective way

I am away first for 1 metre of enamel flue as it will only take 15mins to fit and get an instant benefit for free

Thanks for all the replies

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

before you fit the radiator though make sure the garage door is draught proof or you may as well not fit the radiator

 

[ar22]

before you fit the radiator though make sure the garage door is draught proof or you may as well not fit the radiator

The main door is coated in 50mm kingspan which made a huge difference last winter

its only a single skin garage and can feel dampish

plus i keep putting wet motorbikes in it

so I only want to dry the garage a bit

cheers

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

The main door is coated in 50mm kingspan which made a huge difference last winter

its only a single skin garage and can feel dampish

plus i keep putting wet motorbikes in it

so I only want to dry the garage a bit

cheers

Kingspan is good stuff but I would still look at how the garage door shuts and seals

 

[ar22]

Kingspan is good stuff but I would still look at how the garage door shuts and seals

sealed pretty good as well but I still have to let the boiler breath

 

[Best]

You could put a ceiling up, & insulate it. Also you could batton, kingspan & dry line the walls. Cost a lot though!

 

[fuzzy]

is it open flued boiler?
if not why does it need to breath?

 

[ar22]

You could put a ceiling up, & insulate it. Also you could batton, kingspan & dry line the walls. Cost a lot though!

couldnt put a ceiling up, but would love to

you have no idea how much junk I have up there

 

[ar22]

is it open flued boiler?
if not why does it need to breath?

its a conventional flue not balanced

although theres probably enough ventilation getting in through the roof and felt to do it

heating isnt my main priority, I need a heat source that drys the air a bit, with it being a non cavity garage there is always the chance of damp ingress through the walls

since we have quite a few motorbikes in there I am to be honest just being very fussy and since I fitted a new worscester boiler a couple of years back, which is much better insulated than the old dinasaur I get little heat benefit

so I am changing the flue lower 3 ft to a black enamel to get as much heat from it

fitting a radiator for use during cold and wet periods

after that I will be happy enough until my planned garage extension which will be in cavity

cheers for all the input

 

[ar22]

all sorted

moved pump up and she works a treat

rad makes some difference (and was given it free)


had a couple of minor leaks at compression joints

whats the best gunk to put round olives to ensure no leaks

I have Heldite would it be as good as anything

next job is upstairs under floor so want no leaks at all

thanks for all the advice it was spot on

 

[dancinplumba]

hi by conventional flue do you mean open flued ? do you have purpose provided ventilation for boiler ?

 

[ar22]

yes its a vertical open flue

garage has plenty of ventilation (too much)

 

[Simon F]

hi by conventional flue do you mean open flued ? do you have purpose provided ventilation for boiler ?

valid question, the ventilation is likely to be much more than the 35cm2 allowed for adventitious air,and plenty for combustion air, but difficult to measure to prove conformity.

 

[Best]

had a couple of minor leaks at compression joints

whats the best gunk to put round olives to ensure no leaks

I have Heldite would it be as good as anything

Use any paste like Boss White, or similar for non potable copper pipe to compression joints. Just a little on olive acts as a fine sealant.
You might prefer non hardening makes of paste, as Boss White, brilliant though it is, hardens with heat & therefore sets solid in threads & fittings.
Some guys don't use anything on brass joints, but you will get some joints very slightly weeping, even if joint is not overtightened.

 

[ar22]

Use any paste like Boss White, or similar for non potable copper pipe to compression joints. Just a little on olive acts as a fine sealant.
You might prefer non hardening makes of paste, as Boss White, brilliant though it is, hardens with heat & therefore sets solid in threads & fittings.
Some guys don't use anything on brass joints, but you will get some joints very slightly weeping, even if joint is not overtightened.

cheers will make sure sure I get some and put it in the toolbox