Ideal Isar HE30 - DHW going to CH?

[chaotic_j]

Hi fellas,

Much to my dismay I find myself like so many others in a pickle with my Ideal Isar HE30, it is just my luck I am landed with one of these badboys and thus I find myself seeking your assistance!

Problem seemed to start last night/this morning, so fairly sudden. The boiler was installed in 2007 under Warm Front scheme. Nope, it doesn't look like they did a very good job! It is located in the kitchen.

Noticed last night radiators seemed to be constantly 'on' i.e. hot/warm, particularly downstairs, and this was well after the CH was set to be off..! 3.5 hours later to be precise.

Problem now is no hot water / only very lukewarm.

The shower was totally cold this morning, upstairs taps sort of lukewarm now, kitchen taps are hot for about 2 seconds then lukewarm/cold now.

If I turn the CH thermostat off and set CH control on boiler to min, still same.

The radiators on the other hand seem to work fine... wondering if the DHW is going to CH?

The boiler display shows "0" and then when you run the hot water tap it goes to "d" and the burner goes on.. so 'should' be working OK?

Wondering if, as I've read on this forum and elsewhere on the web it is the "diverter valve head"?

This looks very easy to replace from the installers manual i.e. turn off electricity to boiler, turn off gas supply, remove cover, replace diverter valve - reverse of previous steps.

Hope you can help! your thoughts?

 

[mickie]

looks like you have it all worked out

 

[diamondgas]

Thoughts are you don't have enough personal compitence to tackle this 🙂 No offence meant 🙂

Post ya whereabouts and soemone will have you up and ready for Christmas ,, no worries 🙂

IMO

 

[aggis]

You'll need the GC of the boiler & the long serial number, as Ideal have a habit of having different parts for different SR numbers

 

[chaotic_j]

Hi fellas,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I turned the power off to the boiler and removed the screw holding the cover on (someone been here before?) checked the diverter valve head, it's a grey Honeywell VC6012-34 which was expected.

I can see the part is £39.99 delivered on the web.

I have telephoned a heating engineer as recommended by my neighbour and he will not touch our boiler - his words. He says Ideal are the worst boilers to work on. He recommends a fixed-price repair by Ideal or British Gas. I have telephoned them and they want £245 and 0-30 mins £69 / 30 mins-2 hours £189 respectively.

If I ring around some more heating engineers what should I expect to pay in terms of labour for carrying out this job please?

Would it really be that difficult to do it myself? Apparently I'd need to depressurise the boiler and apply some silicone grease to the diverter valve head o-ring mating surfaces before I swap it over.

 

[aggis]

Hmm, Not force to be the Honeywell motor, could be the actual Divertor Head/cartridge thats not sealing/shutting off the radiators when hot water req'd

 

[GQuigley67]

i would repair it no problem, but then again i am legally allowed to touch boilers as i am deemed competent by HSE, you my friend are not and you will be breaking the law if you tamper with your boiler.

phone another engineer that guy is a tool, knocking back business like that he must be busy lol

save up for a boiler replacement as these boilers are the worst

 

[chaotic_j]

Yeah he did say he was very busy!

I telephoned another heating engineer after I made my last post and left a voicemail message but I haven't heard back from him yet. Another recommendation and my last at the moment although looking for more!

I don't mean to be flippant or disrespectful but how many homeowners have been prosecuted for changing a diverter valve head? Since the gas side of the boiler doesn't need to be touched, would it really be illegal? If I thoroughly research what replacing a diverter valve entails, and I carry everything out to a 't' doesn't that make me a competent person?

It isn't like I'm talking about relocating a flue?

My folks had some issues with their gas fire in recent years, it was installed by someone who wasn't CORGI-registered (as it was then, now Gas Safe I'm aware), obviously they were paid for that work. He was reported to CORGI who did precisely nothing about this individual?

I have heard these boilers are a pile of proverbial.. what boilers would you recommend? Worcester-Bosch? Thanks in advance.

 

[gasmarc]

You may have a dodgy diverter valve , I am gas safe and I would be wary touching an ideal as they are rubbish , Intergas boilers are one of the best imho each to there own viessmann, remeha are ok but have had agg with them all

 

[casaco]

If the display is d and you don't get hot water, the diverter valve is stuck, as this is hydraulics you don't have to be gas safe to fix it, you are not touching the flue, burner box or breaking any gas connections. You can remove the div head and turn a tap on, if the pin goes in or out the head is ok, the valve is stuck, they can be removed and cleaned but usually stick again at some time in the not too distant future. Better to replace the valve, make sure you get boiler serial number because there are a couple of options.
I have fixed loads of these, one of the worst boilers to work on.
Hope this helps, casaco

 

[gasmarc]

May the force be with you

 

[aggis]

casaco.
I think you'll find you have to be Gas Safe Registered At all times when working on Gas Appliances!!!!!!!
All Safety checks MUST be carried out when any work is carried out on an appliance, If not GSR, not competent!

 

[chaotic_j]

Hi I found this on the Gas Safe Register website;

http://www.User PlumbersForums.net ...F/Who can legally work on a gas appliance.pdf

"What gas work can be undertaken by other tradespersons?
If the work required involves the replacement of a water carrying component e.g. a pump or central heating control valve, housed within the boiler's decorative casing, the work could be undertaken by another competent tradesperson e.g. plumber/electrician. Providing the work could be undertaken without having to break a combustion chamber seal (see Can I take the case off my gas appliance? below), or disturbing any gas carrying component, it would not need to be undertaken by a Gas Safe engineer."

 

[aggis]

Fitting of Pcb's often require Gas pressures setting, it's a very grey area, You fit a pump & the flue isn't connected correctly, your the last man on the job!!
Certainly wouldn't be recommending other trades to carryout, what your suggesting, they can't do the mandatory safety checks, & could end up in court doing some explaining.

 

[casaco]

You see you are not as clever as you thought you were, gas appliances have two sides water and gas, all I said was that if the problem was hydraulic related you don't have to be gas safe registered, as long as the repair does not involve ANYTHING to do with gas or flues. Changing pcb's, well that's another matter, some pcb changes require you to carry out checks that do involve gas related work.
Whats the difference between changing a secondary pressure vessel or a pump or a diverter valve or a leaking filling loop iso valve? Answer no gas related work involved.

 

[aggis]

It's not being clever, it's being qualified to do the work.
All safety checks are mandatory when working on gas appliances & if your not GSR you can't carry them out.

 

[chaotic_j]

Hi guys,

Not sure if my problem is bigger than I thought?

I have shone a torch around the boiler, most of the pipework is boxed in but I can see one of the pipes to the boiler has lots of white stuff that looks like its dripped down it and green stuff, this is also most concentrated around the joints in the copper piping.

Inside the boiler I spotted a few little bits of white stuff, a small bit of piping to somewhere in the sealed section at the top has a sort of white efflorescence all around it.

Is this corrosion? Is it serious?

A label on the boiler casing says Fernox F1 but there are no dates or anything filled in.. I am now getting paranoid whoever installed this didn't put inhibitor in the system? Is this a typical "Warmfront" episode? eek!

 

[casaco]

No, you only have to be competent to carry out work on your own appliances. Just say you have worked on gas appliances for 40 years, your registration expires on March 31st so come April 1st you somehow no longer know how to fix the same boiler that you fixed yesterday, how does that work? Are you no longer qualified or just not registered?
You still don't seem to understand the difference betwen water and gas, the GAS SAFETY REGISTER is only concerned with work that is gas related, ie. products of combustion, gas supply etc. NOTHING to do with water. Draining down and replacing a hydraulic block does NOT compromise the integrity of any gas appliance. Don't know how you can disagree with that, but I suspect you might try.

 

[casaco]

Hi chaotic, don't wory about the white stuff, it is probably calcium deposits that have set solid and stopped the leak that allowed the water to escape in the first place, check to see if there are any wet deposits overnight when the boiler cools, if there are you will have to think about remaking the joints.
You can't demonise Warmfront in general, they have so many different contractors, but I would bet that they did in fact put inhibitor in your system, that label probably came with the box containing the inhibitor.

 

[chaotic_j]

Hi, have I got the wrong part with the grey Honeywell VC6012-34 diverter head then? It could be the actual diverter cartridge behind the head?

To try what you suggested earlier about seeing if the pin moves or not, do I need to depressurise the boiler or drain it at all?

Thanks in advance your most helpful.

 

[chaotic_j]

I've took off the diverter valve head, the white lever on the side of it won't move at all - it's stuck facing the rear.

Inside where the spring attached to the white lever rests is a metal spindle, this is covered in a layer of black sludge.

Put the new diverter valve head on and still the same.. no DHW..

 

[casaco]

No, the head comes off without having to drain down, drop the pcb forward, turn diverter head to the left and pull, (see instruction manual). You can then run the boiler briefly on heating then hot water, if pin goes in and out the head is ok. You have to drain down to replace the cartridge though, there are only 4 bolts holding it, you will need a long reach allen key, 4 or 5 mm, can't remember. Sometimes you can free the diverter valve mechanism by washing it, but while you have it in bits might as well replace it, make sure you get the boiler serial number before ordering parts as they will ask you for it.

 

[chaotic_j]

Thanks casaco yeah I managed it after I posted my second to last message, very easy. I pulled the diverter valve pin forwards with a pair of pliers and run the DHW but still the same... rather alarmingly the pressure gauge spun round and 'clicked' so I turned the boiler off then!

The original diverter valve head now seems to be stuck in the opposite position to before i.e. white plastic tab towards the label area..

 

[gasmarc]

Happy days what do you expect from Ideal
Dont forget to get a gas safe registered engineer to check it afterwards as you would not want to be held liable for your actions

 

[casaco]

Thats because the diverter valve is waiting for a signal from the pcb to change back to heating or hot water, if you put the head back on it should move back into position. Now you have freed the pin the valve might operate properly, can't understand why the pressure gauge should have moved though, what is it reading now? Try and get it back to 1 bar when boiler is cold. Did the pin inside the head move in and out?