ideal logic plus or ideal vogue

[ash121]

Looking to purchase a boiler, i have shortlisted the following for a 2 bedroom property, we are also considering a loft conversion so there shall be a large double rad in the loft too, so i guess it would be 3 rooms...

bathroom has no shower so the bath shall be used

ideal logic plus 24 DHW flow rate l/min. 35°C rise 9.9
ideal logic plus 30 DHW flow rate l/min. 35°C rise 12.4
ideal vogue 26 - DHW flow rate l/min. 35°C rise 10.6

i know the ideal logic plus is a great boiler and have seen plenty positive feedback on the forums

i am also considering the ideal vogue 26 kw, it has caught my eye, has premium parts and components and its their flagship model, only reservation i have is that it is a relatively new boiler on the market...

anyone fitted many of the ideal vogues? what would you recommend i go for, any pros or cons?

all of the above come with a 7 year warranty

 

[Ray Stafford]

How quickly do you need to make your mind up ash121?

The reason I ask is that Ideal have just given 6 Vogue boilers to members of this forum for test and review.

If you can afford to wait a few weeks, then you should have the chance to read at least some of those reviews, and then make your mind up with unbiased information at your fingertips.

 

[ash121]

that is great, how long will the members have the boiler to test and review?

Could wait for a week, 2 weeks may be pushing it...

How quickly do you need to make your mind up ash121?

The reason I ask is that Ideal have just given 6 Vogue boilers to members of this forum for test and review.

If you can afford to wait a few weeks, then you should have the chance to read at least some of those reviews, and then make your mind up with unbiased information at your fingertips.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Thats tight. Only one has physically been delivered so far, and I am not sure when he is fitting it.

Xmas is the deadline.

 

[ash121]

yeh afraid so, have you fitted any? what is your opinion?

Thats tight. Only one has physically been delivered so far, and I am not sure when he is fitting it.

Xmas is the deadline.

 

[Ray Stafford]

yeh afraid so, have you fitted any? what is your opinion?

Moi? Fit a boiler? Heaven forbid my dear chap.

I wouldn't sully my lily-whites by opening the box!

(Check my signature block) 🙂

 

[ash121]

lol okie dokey

hopefully other members on the forum can give their input 😛

Moi? Fit a boiler? Heaven forbid my dear chap.

I wouldn't sully my lily-whites by opening the box!

(Check my signature block) 🙂

 

[jefaz]

I'd go with a baxi duotec 🙂 but out of those 2 I'd have a logic plus,cheaper and are a superb boiler!!
proven in the market too!

 

[Thoggy]

I've fitted quite a few logic plus and started fitting the vogues now, I have a vogue in my house I think they are good boilers but only time will tell.
installer wise they are the easiest boiler to fit and commission in my view but we are all different and have our own opinions, life would be pretty dull other wise. Hope this helps.

 

[Chalked]

I wish they would have given me one.

Boiler changes Friday and Monday . Both vaillant s . Will have to try something a little cheaper sometime .

 

[TBServices]

I'd have a 30kw logic over a vogue. Although I do really like the vogue, they're less compact than the logic, and the benefits for the householder are few.

By the way, how have you determined which size of boiler you need?

 

[Thoggy]

Don't think the logic modulates as low as the vogue also.

 

[TBServices]

Don't think the logic modulates as low as the vogue also.

It doesn't, the vogue will be more efficient, it's better looking, quieter better interface and has a stainless hex. But chances are a 26kw won't be good enough for HW demand.

 

[Thoggy]

True, I would go for the 32kw.

 

[Ermintrude]

Both excellent and have fitted 1000's of logics company anyway, vogue is nice and has excellent early doors feedback. / nearly a year old. Fitted a few and good boilers. They have similar design to duotec and some similar parts, ideal spent a lot on this boiler it's looking like a good one. If you have space and can afford it vogue if on a budget or it's going in a tight spot logic + 35

 

[ash121]

Both excellent and have fitted 1000's of logics company anyway, vogue is nice and has excellent early doors feedback. / nearly a year old. Fitted a few and good boilers. They have similar design to duotec and some similar parts, ideal spent a lot on this boiler it's looking like a good one. If you have space and can afford it vogue if on a budget or it's going in a tight spot logic + 35

You have suggested the logic plus 35, my plumber didn't suggest the 35 at all

Will the logic plus 30 be not be suitable? how does the logic plus 30 and vogue 26 compare in terms of flow rate in the real world?

we may consider fitting a bath shower mixer at a later point but at the moment it will be the bath, but shall use the bath occasionally if we do fit a shower too

Max i could push to if i were to purchase the vogue over the logic plus would be for the 26kw only version

In total if we were to do the loft conversion we would have a total of 7 radiators in the 2 bed property

 

[Ray Stafford]

Hi Ash

Forget the radiator count - all of the boilers being discussed are more than capable of running your heating demand.

Assuming all other things being equal and adequate, combi boiler DHW flow rates are a function of their output - so a 30kw will be better than a 26kw by a ratio of 30:26.

This becomes more important if you are frequently running baths. If you prefer to shower, then its largely irrelevant.

 

[Thoggy]

If your on a budget go for the 30kw logic plus.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes agree I would have the larger output. Sorry I thought I was two bathrooms.

Logic 30 and a decent programmable thermostat.

 

[ash121]

Thank you all for your input...

Before i commit to purchasing the ideal logic plus 30 boiler, are there any other boilers good boilers if not better within the same price range as the logic 30 i should consider? i.e baxi duo tec, glowworm or any other makes?

 

[Jimbob]

You really can't go wrong with the logic +. I'm a big fan. Really easy to install and commission and it's a really smart looking boiler. Haven't had chance to fit the vogue, but would like to.

The new baxis are ment to be good ( now problems are solved) but can't comment personally.

 

[Thoggy]

Stay away from glow worm, Baxi duo tec isn't a bad boiler for the price and comes with 7 years. I would go with the logic though.

 

[TBServices]

Ash, here's my concern.

You need your installer to PROPERLY SIZE the boiler to suit your hot water requirements. It's pointless saying your committing to a logic 30kw boiler if you need a boiler to provide 16l/m. The fact your installer seems to have offered you 3 different boiler sizes OR he's letting you decide, says to me he doesn't know/care about what he's doing.

 

[Ermintrude]

I would say logic and duo are on level pegging. Logic is smarter looking and more compact yet still nice to service / repair . From what u have said 30 logic + or 28 duotec DO NOT GET A DUO TEC GA or NETATEC GA !!!!! B

 

[ash121]

Ash, here's my concern.

You need your installer to PROPERLY SIZE the boiler to suit your hot water requirements. It's pointless saying your committing to a logic 30kw boiler if you need a boiler to provide 16l/m. The fact your installer seems to have offered you 3 different boiler sizes OR he's letting you decide, says to me he doesn't know/care about what he's doing.

I understand where you are coming from, the plumber suggested 3 sizes on the basis of the following

ideal logic 24 would be suitable for a shower, occasional use for baths
ideal logic 30 would be suitable for baths
ideal vogue slightly better flow rate than the logic 24, but again occasional use for bath too

i am also thinkng whether the ideal logic 30 would be oversized for my requirements? and would "cycle" due to it being oversized?

 

[Jimbob]

Ash, here's my concern.

You need your installer to PROPERLY SIZE the boiler to suit your hot water requirements. It's pointless saying your committing to a logic 30kw boiler if you need a boiler to provide 16l/m. The fact your installer seems to have offered you 3 different boiler sizes OR he's letting you decide, says to me he doesn't know/care about what he's doing.

Hmmm

I would always offer different sizes as price varies loads. When doing so I educate them on the difference, which is DHW flow rate. And more is better in nearly every case when it comes to combis, but it comes at a cost. It's not like sizing an unvented system where your sizing storage

 

[ash121]

Hmmm

I would always offer different sizes as price varies loads. When doing so I educate them on the difference, which is DHW flow rate. And more is better in nearly every case when it comes to combis, but it comes at a cost. It's not like sizing an unvented system where your sizing storage

So am i good to purchase the logic 30 plus? and not have issues with cycling due to modulation?

 

[Ray Stafford]

So am i good to purchase the logic 30 plus? and not have issues with cycling due to modulation?

Yes. However, I would recommend letting your installer buy it and supply it, even if he marks it up a little. Then there is absolutely no question about who is responsible if there are any issues.

If you buy it (saving yourself a couple of quid perhaps) and something later goes wrong - he has the option of saying - "oh, its a warranty matter - call the manufacturer".

 

[ash121]

Yes. However, I would recommend letting your installer buy it and supply it, even if he marks it up a little. Then there is absolutely no question about who is responsible if there are any issues.

If you buy it (saving yourself a couple of quid perhaps) and something later goes wrong - he has the option of saying - "oh, its a warranty matter - call the manufacturer".

Cheers, the plumber does not mind whether i purchase or if he purchases the boiler

The concern i had was whether the logic 30 would be too big for my requirements, as you have assured me i shall not have any issues with cycling/modulation, i shall go ahead and purchase the 30 logic plus and the logic 30 would be fine in future even if we stop using the bath as we will have a shower instead

Although ideally i would want the vogue 😛 looks like a great boiler! but cannot afford to push to a 32, i can afford the 26, and is a relatively new boiler on the market

 

[TBServices]

Hmmm

I would always offer different sizes as price varies loads. When doing so I educate them on the difference, which is DHW flow rate. And more is better in nearly every case when it comes to combis, but it comes at a cost. It's not like sizing an unvented system where your sizing storage

I'd never offer a 24 if I knew it to be inadequate for the incoming supply, same with a 30! Nobody wants 14l/m of 25 degree water lol. Besides, the price diff between the 2 is pretty minimal.

 

[Jimbob]

No I think more between the difference between the 24 and 35. As 35 usually entails upsizing gas pipework etc.

You will always get cycling with a combi. They are way over kill for most heating systems they are connected too, even the 24kws. On the viessmann you can turn down the max heating output, not sure if the ideals let you

 

[ash121]

No I think more between the difference between the 24 and 35. As 35 usually entails upsizing gas pipework etc.

You will always get cycling with a combi. They are way over kill for most heating systems they are connected too, even the 24kws. On the viessmann you can turn down the max heating output, not sure if the ideals let you

this is what the manual says...

ideal vogue 26

Central heating (CH) output is fully modulating with a range of:
26 3.7 to 18.0kW (12,800 to 61,400 Btu/h)

Instantaneous domestic hot water (DHW) output is also fully
modulating with a maximum of :
26 26kW (88,700 Btu/h)

ideal logic 24 and 30

Central heating (CH) output is fully modulating with a range of:
24 4.8 to 24.2kW (16,500 to 82,600 Btu/h)
30 6.1 to 24.2kW (20,700 to 82,600 Btu/h)

Instantaneous domestic hot water (DHW) output is also fully
modulating with a maximum of :
24 24.2kW (82,600 Btu/h)
30 30.3kW (103,300 Btu/h)

which boiler do you think i should go for?

 

[Jimbob]

Id go for the logic 30 just for the extra flow rate. The vogue modulation is great but not worth the cost of downsizing from 30-26. A decent room stat and properly balanced heating will help prevent cycling to a certain extent

 

[ash121]

Id go for the logic 30 just for the extra flow rate. The vogue modulation is great but not worth the cost of downsizing from 30-26. A decent room stat and properly balanced heating will help prevent cycling to a certain extent

Thank you! the logic 30 it is then! :stooge_curly:

 

[Ermintrude]

If u get logic 30 buy one of their inbuilt remote control timer stats as although I wouldn't normally advocate built in the ldeal ones come with same warranty as boiler!

 

[Ray Stafford]

Cheers, the plumber does not mind whether i purchase or if he purchases the boiler

What he prefers wasn't really the point of my post.

Its what you prefer, and what is in your best interest.

If you buy the boiler, and he fits it, if the worst happens and there are problems, the you have two different contracts.

Non-plumbing people tend to think about a boiler as if it was a stand-alone item, like a fridge or a washing machine, and that it's warranty can be enforced as a stand-alone thing.

However, your boiler is just one component in the larger system that is your heating and hot water. This creates quite a lot of potential uncertainty if there are problems. Is it a boiler problem? Is it a system problem? Is it a combination of the two?

If your plumber has supplied and fitted, you only have one contract, and it becomes his problem. If you supply and he fits, then you have created a whole new grey area that didn't exist before.

 

[ash121]

What he prefers wasn't really the point of my post.

Its what you prefer, and what is in your best interest.

If you buy the boiler, and he fits it, if the worst happens and there are problems, the you have two different contracts.

Non-plumbing people tend to think about a boiler as if it was a stand-alone item, like a fridge or a washing machine, and that it's warranty can be enforced as a stand-alone thing.

However, your boiler is just one component in the larger system that is your heating and hot water. This creates quite a lot of potential uncertainty if there are problems. Is it a boiler problem? Is it a system problem? Is it a combination of the two?

If your plumber has supplied and fitted, you only have one contract, and it becomes his problem. If you supply and he fits, then you have created a whole new grey area that didn't exist before.

I understand your point, I shall discuss this with the installer, cheers

 

[ash121]

If u get logic 30 buy one of their inbuilt remote control timer stats as although I wouldn't normally advocate built in the ldeal ones come with same warranty as boiler!

We shall be purchasing the honeywell cm927 thermostat

 

[ash121]

Forgot to mention, Not sure if it is relevant or will cause problems with the boiler..

the kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms have microbore pipework for the CH and the 2 living rooms are 15mm pipework

Will this be an issue for the boiler in any way?

the plan in the future is to upgrade the pipework to 15mm

 

[Ermintrude]

We shall be purchasing the honeywell cm927 thermostat

I would buy two as the first one will be broken in 3 - 5 years!

 

[ash121]

I would buy two as the first one will be broken in 3 - 5 years!

Why? is there a problem with them?

 

[Ermintrude]

Many people will swear blind they are the dogs, but I had a spate about 4 weeks ago where I changed 7 or 8 in about 3 days. All with dead or dying screens. Get a few here and there. Siemens is a guaranteed event every 2.5 to 3 years. Manufacturers gear is their problem
And has a full warranty it's a bit like you buying and him fitting. If it's all in the boiler it's all ideals problem.

 

[ash121]

Many people will swear blind they are the dogs, but I had a spate about 4 weeks ago where I changed 7 or 8 in about 3 days. All with dead or dying screens. Get a few here and there. Siemens is a guaranteed event every 2.5 to 3 years. Manufacturers gear is their problem
And has a full warranty it's a bit like you buying and him fitting. If it's all in the boiler it's all ideals problem.

True say the cm927 looks like a great unit, will consider fitting the inbuilt timer...

as some of my pipework is microbore will that be a problem for the boiler?

Forgot to mention, Not sure if it is relevant or will cause problems with the boiler..

the kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms have microbore pipework for the CH and the 2 living rooms are 15mm pipework

Will this be an issue for the boiler in any way?

the plan in the future is to upgrade the pipework to 15mm

 

[Ermintrude]

Fit a magnetic filter ( my pref is Mmagnaclean) there is absolutely no need to change micro-bore. Save your money for a holiday or something u actually need or want, not what some blabber said u need!

 

[ash121]

Fit a magnetic filter ( my pref is Mmagnaclean) there is absolutely no need to change micro-bore. Save your money for a holiday or something u actually need or want, not what some blabber said u need!

Cheers, was considering a magnetic filter too though the trappex centramag rather than the magnaclean

 

[Jimbob]

Cheers, was considering a magnetic filter too though the trappex centramag rather than the magnaclean

My preference is also Magnaclean pro 2, they seem to pick up a lot more in my experience

 

[TBServices]

Magnaclean Pro 2 is better value than trappex if bought as the chemical pack IMHO.

Easier to fit and better quality.

 

[ash121]

Magnaclean Pro 2 is better value than trappex if bought as the chemical pack IMHO.

Easier to fit and better quality.

As there are so many different magnetic filters out there, is the magnaclean pro 2 the best out there currently on the market?

 

[TBServices]

As there are so many different magnetic filters out there, is the magnaclean pro 2 the best out there currently on the market?

In my opinion yes. That said, that has a lot to do with how easy and well thought out it is for the installer.

 

[Tizak]

Could anyone give me an update as to how they are finding the Ideal Vogue and whether you think it is worth the extra few hundred more than the Logic 30KW. I am looking at having one of these two fitted but am a bit unsure as to which is the best.:dizzy2: Thanks in advance.

 

[Roger Welton]

Fitted a few vogues, very nice boiler.

 

[Ermintrude]

Vogue is quieter and a lot nicer. Functionally 10% better.

It's like comparing a vw and Audi. Both the same car but if you can afford it get the Audi!

 

[smtplumbing]

I prefer the vogue top class boiler, high end boiler with 7 years warranty and user friendly and installer friendly

 

[TBServices]

Lovely lovely vogue. Do it if you can afford it.... Unless you want it to go in a 400 wall unit

 

[Tizak]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I did ask the chap who is going to put the boiler in for his advice (he has the Logic in his home) and he wasn't sure the extra money I'd need to pay for the vogue would be worth it although he did say the Vogue is a lovely boiler; I think he was probably trying to save me some money but I'd rather pay a bit more if it's worth it; awkward some of us customers eh:lol:

 

[TBServices]

Good choice. Nice to see some isn't scared of paying for quality.

The biggest advantage of the vogue would be the stainless steel heat exchanger, and it will modulate exceptionally low, which should save you gas.

 

[Plumbcrazy56]

I love the Logic +, fitted one at home and recommend them to all my customers for ease of use, size and reliability.