independent opinion needed

[deebright]

hi, I had a job in where i had to use 2 plumbers, both gas safe registered.
one run a copper pipe from the meter to hob and to utility room ready for boiler installation. second plumber than supplied and installed the boiler.
the first plumber certified his work as for installation of pipe to the hob and connecting the hob and installation of the pipe to gas valve to which than boiler was to be connected. his drop tests were fine etc and all in order.
second plumber however messed up the flu and it now spits hot water at intervals. he refuses to certify his work he and says that its because the copper pipe installed from the meter is wrong as its soldered.( In areas where the copper pipe is concealed in dryling (app 5 linear meters) there are 5 ventilation grills (size 200*200).the rest of the pipe runs in veritcal riser which is fire rated and ventilated at the top of the building.)
He demands to see the other plumbers certificate as he claims he is not sure that installation is safe. If I don't give him the paperwork he will not certify the boiler. In addition - he claims that other builders must have moved the flue so it became wonky (bent at a junction and that's why water is accumulating and spits at intervals) I don't believe this would be the case as I expect the boiler flue to be clipped to timbers (flu runs in a ceiling void with access panels on every junction) clipped to timbers with no room to maneuver.
I called gas safe asking for advice but they didn't help.
Can somebody please tell me where I can find regulations regarding installation of copper pipes in voids. Where I can find information regarding flue installation (ie should it be tight or have room to move). I need to find some legal document like BS standards where all this can be specified and I can make a case with the plumber. Any information would be very much appreciated
thanks dee

 

[Rob Sale]

The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998

 

[Centralheatking]

I would get them both back at the same time, be open minded and
see what the two fitters can agree on .......... centralheatking

 

[deebright]

getting them together is not going to work and its going to cost me money, the first plumber had to take on part of the job just because the main plumber refused to install pipe work , the boiler installation is just a part of a big system including solar panels pv panels etc. I assumed that installation of a pipe and connecting a hob was too petty for him to do.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

it seems iffy that the second plumber refused to install the correct pipework for the install, then goes on to question the ability of the other one.

 

[Plumb Ugly]

Something doesn't add up here have you checked with gas safe that both these plumbers are registered? It should be a simple enough test to see if the pipe work is causing a fault with the boiler for either of your plumbers to carry out

 

[jtsplumbing]

Information you are looking for BS standards , gas safety installation, try your local reference library its the only place you will get it for free.

 

[Linkyplumb]

As already stated something sounds a miss. Check gas safe site to see if number 2 is actually registered.

 

[deebright]

thanks a lot, he is registered I checked, I think that the flue rectification is a lot of work and that's why he refuses to certify and blames it on pipework. I read the BS quickly and it seems that as long as the void is ventilated there is no reason for the pipe not to be soldered and boxed. He actually used the term "illegal" but if this was the case than 90% of the houses would have illegal gas installation.
The problem is that I had to pay him all money upfront (apparently I haven't passed a credit check), I know- I was stupid but it's done.
Can somebody just confirm that when flue is installed than there should be no movement at all to prevent accidents or damages, I cant see in anywhere in installation manuals of boilers. It just says to install, clip on brackets and cement at the wall. Is it ok for the flue to have so much movement on joint?
Thanks again

 

[Linkyplumb]

Sorry dee, but alarm bells are ringing....a credit check
The flue should be secured to each bit, ie screwed together with supplied self tapping screws, and sealed through brickwork etc. Some movement may be possible, but obviously it is not designed to be swung upon.

 

[Rickster123]

Any chance you could put a pic of the flue on here?

 

[dancinplumba]

Sorry dee, but alarm bells are ringing....a credit check
The flue should be secured to each bit, ie screwed together with supplied self tapping screws, and sealed through brickwork etc. Some movement may be possible, but obviously it is not designed to be swung upon.

that imo depends on boiler mi's

 

[deebright]

yeah i know, it was a big job so I understood that he wanted money for materials etc. but at the end he said he would not come to site unless he got paid the last 300 odd pounds
anyway, i think i got the answers so thanks again to everybody, hopefully will not have to ask for help again🙂

 

[michael c]

deebright just to clarify, where is the flue spitting water i am assuming the end?

 

[AlexGas]

I called gas safe asking for advice but they didn't help.

!?


:confused5:

 

[AlexGas]

You can buy any BS here:

http://shop.bsigroup.com/

 

[deebright]

sorry, got busy, correct the flu is spitting water every now and again, its a long flu and it had few connections, I was told by my other plumber that the connections must not be straight so condensation gathers at an angle where 2 bits are joined and the water comes out

 

[TBServices]

The flue connections should be straight, but the flue (along its whole length) should have a fall back towards the boiler so the condensation runs back into the sump.

 

[erpkid]

sorry, got busy, correct the flu is spitting water every now and again, its a long flu and it had few connections, I was told by my other plumber that the connections must not be straight so condensation gathers at an angle where 2 bits are joined and the water comes out

I would suggest you bite the bullet and get a third GSR in to give you an independent view and rectify as required but in the meantime shut down the boiler. Try gas safe again and stress your safety concerns.

 

[Guest123]

What I'd do is contact Gas Safe and tell them that you had work done by 2 GS engineers and ask them to inspect it. Tell them you think it's unsafe. They'll tell you what is required.

 

[deebright]

I think I will get the 3rd guy in to inspect both previous plumbers, it just drives me mad as it will cost another couple of hundred pounds and may get me nowhere. if that doesn't work i will call gas safe.
Thanks again for the bs standards link

 

[AlexGas]

If the gas work is wrong – you don’t have to pay to put it straight. Gas Safe will ask your GSR engineer at wrong to put it straight. If your GSR engineers refuses to do it – the very GSR engineers has to pay someone else (GSR) to do the job. Gas safe should help you.

 

[Centralheatking]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm ?

centralheatking