Indirect system

[ste b]

Hi good to be back for tips and advice from the forum,having done a few jobs since completing my c and g course i have not yet come accross working with indirect system,everyone i been to had combi"s and the work has been easy, i know what i about to ask is easy to you guys here but i am just making sure before i do the work,simple washbasin and toilet installation like for like,but having not come accross this type of common house-hold system i just need a little help,i pretty sure i dont have to drain all the cylinder of water to change the hot water taps,my question is about which valves to turn off,am i right in saying turn off the gate valve for the hot water which is located near to the vessel then run the hot water tap till it stops running,also do i have have to turn off the iso valve located in the attic or does that not matter,also do i need to tie up ball cock in loft for cold water draining to change the cw taps and wc,or should i just turn off the gate valve/iso valve located under the cistern.......i know its sounds amatuerish but i never touched this system and to be honest college just showed us how to plumb in a vessel,lol. cheers guys any info appreciated.......

 

[SimonJohns]

For safety and being stuck with a stuck gate valve when you finish I would isolate cold water mains and run hot taps until they stop.

You will end up with a empty cold water storage cistern. And you won't have to tie up ball valve
The Hws cylinder will still be full but this won't come out of the taps

If you going to do an immersion change you will need to drain a small amount of water from the cylinder

Best of luck. Photos when you finish please.

Btw. Check the taps you buy are suitable for a low pressure installation

 

[Best]

Usually the feeds from the cold tank will have valves on them. Just turn them off & run taps till water stops. If they are gate valves, be gentle with them & don't turn off very tight, but they often need renewed - so keep spare ones.
You may have air locks. Only other way, is to bung the pipes in the inside of tank.

Edit :- ... Unless, as Simonjohns has just said, you drain the entire cold tank.

 

[Simon F]

are you saying that hot and cold are both from the cwsc or just the hot water feed?

 

[SimonJohns]

It's possible that the cold is fed from the same cistern. But it is referred to as a cold water cistern

To check if the cold taps are fed from it. Put you finder over a cold tap. And turn on. If you get wet. It's mains fed. If you don't. Its cistern fed.

 

[ste b]

Cheers,tell you what i will do before and after pics,always take pics for future ref,so thats no probs..........

 

[ste b]

Just getting back to my question just to be sure,simon johns,when you say isolate cw mains,do you mean the tap under-neath sink unit where it enters the building or isolate in loft space,i sure there is 100+ litres in the cw storage cistern,lot of water to waste.....i thought there would have been iso valves/gate valves on the hot and cold distribution pipes,am i wrong?.....other than that i gona do exactly as you say,mains off and run taps untill they stop,.....re-plaement taps are ok thanks for that info,

 

[southcoastboile]

easyest thing would be to iscolate via ballofix valves on existing pipework if there are any. If not you can use the gate valve that is normaly fitted to iscolate the hot water side, it will be on the cold feed to the cylinder, it is always the pipe that is closest to the bottom of the cylinder so follow it back untill you see the gate valve. The cold may be fed from tank in which case you will need to drain tank as simon has said and yes turn mains off into house. You could be lucky and it may be mains fed. There may be a risk of gate valve sticking if you do it my way but you should be ok. best thing is to look up system drawings on google so you actuly understand it as if you dont and you get a problem you will not no what to iscolate. Hope this helps and good luck

 

[SimonJohns]

The only reason why I say to isolate the mains and waste the water is purely because of ;
Sticking gate valves
Shearing valves
Leaking valve
Slight pass on valve


But most of all. Less risk.

If you read back through all the posts you will see. Be careful of sticking. Leaking. Weeping etc

This way. The only valve you risk damaging is the mcw stop valve.

 

[southcoastboile]

agreed

 

[ste b]

Ok guys i not taking any chances,isolate mains feed and drain the storage,just out of coincidense,approx how long will it take to drain and re-fill,definatly quicker than going out new gate valves etc etc,im sure........thanks again,appreciated..........sb

 

[SimonJohns]

take about 20min to empty cwsc
take a few mins to refill, depending on mcw flow and pressure

 

[Resolute]

Or bung the tank?!

 

[SimonJohns]

Or bung the tank?!

good call

 

[heliotrope]

take about 20min to empty cwsc
take a few mins to refill

And how many hours chasing air locks?:shocked:

Go with Resolute's post:wink:

 

[ste b]

Lol,ok what does bunging tank en-tale,i never done this but have heard it can be done,what do you actually bung tank with?

 

[jtsplumbing]

Sorry but you did say that you have done a C&G course in plumbing, and they did-not teach you about a basic plumbing system, and how to replace taps ect . I think if you paid for this course you need to ask for a refund, :angry_smile:

 

[Resolute]

To bung the tank you need to get a bung set (or improvise) and then just stick the correct size bung into the relevant draw offs in the bottom of the CWSC. Check no water flows through the outlets and away you go.

 

[ste b]

i know jts,the teachers were a waste of space,didnt want to answer any questions,to be honest i not sure if they were plumbers like they said,they spoke about it but we didnt actually learn things such as draining systems for tap replacement etc etc,and bunging systems was"nt mentioned,with taps we just took one apart to identify rubber etc etc..................one lad on the course had leaks everywhere,the teachers could not fix,i had too do it lol,and he still passed the course,he even managed to tear all the thread on top of storage tank which caused it to leak,the course was a joke to be honest,and as i have said before a lot of the work i done has been with combi"s so bathroom suites are no trouble,this is the first job with in direct system,and its been 4 yrs since college.....cheers

 

[jtsplumbing]

I can-not believe that you have been doing this for 4 years and not come accross a basic system, if I were you I would think about trying to spend at least one day a week with some one who can show you how to do things, How have you been earning a living if you do-not understand the basic`s, Are you not worried about the damage you could cause ?? This is the sort of thing you should have cover`d in the first couple of weeks. What collage did you go to ? are they still training people ? if so they need to be reported!! Did you have to pay ?

 

[scotty plumber]

I went to college for 3years during my apprenticeship and i admit to learning very little at college! It was a waste of time for myself and i can kind of see his point ( a little ) they did not teach me any very basic stuff like changing washers etc but more thing's like bylaw's and distances between pipe clip's etc and as a 16 year old it was in one ear and straight out the other!

 

[philtheflush]

and thats why this forum is important you learn a great deal if you look at all the problems people have and seeethe solutions that are given in time you tend to remeber when out on jobs

 

[jtsplumbing]

So whats the point of these collage`s if they are not teaching you guys , at least the basic`s of plumbing B4 you go out into the world.

 

[scotty plumber]

I learn't all my basic knowledge via my journeyman and just learning myself, i would not thank my old college for any of it!

 

[Best]

I knew of a lecturer who had building qualifications longer than your arm. He built his own house & later sold it. The entire house was a DIY disaster, except the kitchen units, which were good.
The storage tank had a very large part of it like a tissue paper - obviously melted with a blow lamp, & had to be thrown out. Almost all the rustic bricks on the chimney were upside down.
If they don't know these basics, they shouldn't be teaching.

 

[philtheflush]

i also think that if you go to college to keep your parents happy you dont learn but if you go because you want to then its up to you listen and take in what they tell you. i havnt done an apprentiship so to compensate for that i come on hear and observe and ask questions

 

[ste b]

Ok jts,let me explain,went to college in bolton,after working in the caravan industry for 10 yrs i though it was time for a change, (how wrong was i) so i decided at the young age of 30 to do my c and g level 2 and progress onto my level 3,i did 3 nights a week for 1 year and it was"nt easy,lol.......when i finished the course in 2009 i was hoping to progress onto level 3 but i just could not afford to pack in work unless someone would take me on to get some real experience,but there is no-one round this area willing to do that,so i rang numerous plumbers to see if i could tag along and help out where ever i could in return learn as much as i could,but again with no luck,so since 2009 when i finished college i am still in the caravan industry working for a well establised firm.Since then i have done numerous little jobs,guttering,loadsa taps and outside taps,few rads changes and about six bathroom suites inc tiling,all have been done for friends and family and everyone has had combi"s believe it or not,lol,its not like i been avoiding indirect system i just not come accross one outside of college and was just re-capping and making sure before i took the job on,and i can say i had one leak on all the jobs i done and that was on a bath which the owner got into as soon as i left the property even though i said toleave until the sealer around the bath had set,no pipe leaks to date touch wood,trust me if i could get a plumber to let me out with him at weekends i would,thats why i am here lol...................cheers...

 

[ste b]

Back again lol,when at college we plumbed in a vessel, from mains to cwsc then to the vessel then drained after making sure we had no leaks,we never actually fitted the pipework from this cwsc to the other cold water out-lets,thats were i was getting confused lol,having done a little research and talked on here about draining the cwsc i am a lot clearer on the system and all has come back to me now lol,the thing what was confusing me was why you have to drain the cwsc i just pre-sumed it was normal practice to fit a service valve or stopcock near to the cwsc on the pipework to all upstairs cw outlets so you dont need to drain all the cwsc,obviously i was wrong lol............i got diagram here showing a service valve near to cwsc,i do have adiagram here showing a service valve lol so maybe i will getlucky and the last plumber fitted one too lol...........

 

[SimonJohns]

Back again lol,when at college we plumbed in a vessel, from mains to cwsc then to the vessel then drained after making sure we had no leaks,we never actually fitted the pipework from this cwsc to the other cold water out-lets,thats were i was getting confused lol,having done a little research and talked on here about draining the cwsc i am a lot clearer on the system and all has come back to me now lol,the thing what was confusing me was why you have to drain the cwsc i just pre-sumed it was normal practice to fit a service valve or stopcock near to the cwsc on the pipework to all upstairs cw outlets so you dont need to drain all the cwsc,obviously i was wrong lol............i got diagram here showing a service valve near to cwsc,i do have adiagram here showing a service valve lol so maybe i will getlucky and the last plumber fitted one too lol...........

i wasnt sayin that there will not be a service valve fitted, but it is usually a gate valve and they stick and shear off, when this happens its a pig of a job to replace
you will most prob see a service valve

 

[ste b]

ok thanks,hope we not got off on the wrong footmate,i know some replys can be taken in the wrong way in these forums.............i was"nt having a go by any means.......thanks for replying,hope you got a bit of an idea where i coming from now......as i have...appreciated.....

 

[philtheflush]

im the same as you ste b but i gave up work its hard out there but the more you do the more you learn gravity systems are a pain as ive had a few and had air locks because of draining down but if your not sure turn the job down unless you explain to the customers the probs of draining down and see if they still want you to do it cover your tracks in other words good luck anyway i still love the job though

 

[ste b]

Yeah i allready told the guy,hes a good friend so i have explained to him the probs that may arise,he is fine with it,there are drain valves on the hot and cold feeds under-neath the basin but i not sure if they are just drain valves,should they be able to turn off feed as well,i asked him and he said the water does not stop when turned in,will know more friday when i pay a visit.......cheers....

 

[jtsplumbing]

I can-not see how some of you younger guys have problems understanding basic systems ! are you only taught about combis ? it seams if you have more than 4 pipes its beyond what you know, if you can-not work out a basic system, you need more training, or think about changing your job.!! :13:

 

[SimonJohns]

I can-not see how some of you younger guys have problems understanding basic systems ! are you only taught about combis ? it seams if you have more than 4 pipes its beyond what you know, if you can-not work out a basic system, you need more training, or think about changing your job.!! :13:

Don't tar us all with the same brush 😛

 

[jtsplumbing]

Sorry Simon J , but honestley some of the questions thes guys need to ask about the most basic plumbing, makes you wounder why they chose to do plumbing in the first place, and how they managed to get C&G quals, are these people what the plumbing industry has to look forward to ?? Maybe its not their fault ! but their is somthing wrong with the system when these guys are let out of collage with-out the basic knowlage they need to build on.

 

[ste b]

The basic system is easy,the problem is what the last plumber has left you with,i cant see why some plumbers put iso valves on and some dont,i know now that the job i going to the last plumber has rounded both valves on the central heating pipework,probably trying to turn then with pliers or grips,the idiot,i know the basic sytem mate,just needed re-capping thats all,and now i re-capped its all clear again..........but thanks for calling me young lol.........pics of job to follow,piece of cake.....if i gotta drain down,i will drain down the system......

 

[SimonJohns]

Sorry Simon J , but honestley some of the questions thes guys need to ask about the most basic plumbing, makes you wounder why they chose to do plumbing in the first place, and how they managed to get C&G quals, are these people what the plumbing industry has to look forward to ?? Maybe its not their fault ! but their is somthing wrong with the system when these guys are let out of collage with-out the basic knowlage they need to build on.

I do agree alot. I've gained alot of experience in my short time

I work with a plumber that is same age as me and has been doing it long than me YET he phones me most days asking what to do

For eg. I had to teach him how to balance a system
I had to talk him through an air lock
Ive even had to show him the correct way of using a flexi with rubber washer

 

[GerrythePlumber]

I'm not slagging anyone off, but if you passed your City & Guilds, why didn't you learn this?
This is fundamental information that all Plumbers must know.

 

[GerrythePlumber]

I remember every job interview I went for years ago, the interviewer, probably the boss with limited Plumbing knowledge would ask, "What's the difference between a direct cylinder and an indirect cylinder." You would then be shown a picture, and tell him what was wrong. The answer would normally be a pump on the cold feed or something.

Do you know the answer to this question? If not. Get your books out and read some, like we all had to do.

 

[Mike Jackson]

The problem with most courses nowdays is that the emphasis is on passing rather than learning.

 

[ste b]

.....the differnce............

 

[ste b]

Added a few more pics to my pictures,just so you know i been revising lol,cheers for all your replys........lots more pics to follow......... for future reference.............

 

[ste b]

Job completed this afternoon,i ended up bunging the tank and all draining went well,water was off approx 20 mins whilst i fitted new isoloation valve"s to new wash basin hw and cw,then i run every out-let in turn and carried out rest of work with only one small problem which was the chrome waste for basin,32mm my arse lol,fitted white compression fittings which i still not happy with,as i had to get bigger seals because the chrome pipe did not fit well into 32mm push fit at all,i had to but bigger seals to seal into the 32 mm compression fittings,something to bear in mind with these chrome basin traps, can you buy chrome fittings ? .... i never seen them.....................anyway cheers for all your comments,job done even had 3 cakes baked for me by the owners daughter lol..........

 

[ste b]

 

[Best]

Where did you learn to do plumbing? :smile:
That picture of the pipe from the ballofix valve to the toilet cistern is an eyeful!
All it needed was a nice copper pipe offset, or a couple Yorkshire elbows, or, if you want a DIY job - a flexi.

 

[ste b]

Lol,there is a reason i did that lol,didnt want to cut the rising pipe back any more than it was,but i agree a bit of an eyeful!!,not enough gap for an offset,cheers for comment though,its noted .........

 

[Best]

Lol,there is a reason i did that lol,didnt want to cut the rising pipe back any more than it was,but i agree a bit of an eyeful!!,not enough gap for an offset,cheers for comment though,its noted .........

Lol! You could have fitted the ballofix valve lower if needed & used a 90 degree fitting to the cistern valve tail & a bent piece of copper - or used solder elbow, if you didn't fancy doing an offset!
Nice steel wool job of pipe though! :smile:

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hi Sti B, you say that the person that you did this job for is a friend of yours ! is he still speaking to you ? for some-one who has been doing plunbing for 4 + years, this is a very poor standerd of work ! Did you get paid for this ?? Looks like total weekend DIY job, Monday morning wife calls plumber to put it right, the job is an eyesore ! you could have removed boxing and alterd pipe work, changed for chrome pipe (Yes you can get chrome fittings) Do you do this work part time ? You realy need to spend some time whth some-one who can point you in the right direction, or change your job, if you started work with me you would have been sent home by 10am.

 

[ste b]

JTS said....... You realy need to spend some time whth some-one who can point you in the right direction,

Thats why i joined the forum,cheers for your comments...............

 

[philtheflush]

looks like a french horn only joking steve b. i take it the person he needs to go out with is you is it jtsplumbing. all due and respect its must be brill coming out of college knowing absolutley everything about plumbing jts. i wish i was like you not having to learn anymore. anyway have you thought about doing a course on brain sugery as a side line im sure youll be the best at it.then theres quantum physics you could do on the weekend before you know it nobel prize. could you please send me your autograph

 

[philtheflush]

cheers steve b keep going as i said the more you do the more youll learn good luck

 

[ste b]

French horn lmao......see if i woulda been with phil today,that woulda made his day,takin micky outta me whilst lol watching me altering wc,dot worry i can take it lol,see you on next job lol........

 

[philtheflush]

yeah ok and i promise i wont laugh much

 

[SimonJohns]

French horn lmao......see if i woulda been with phil today,that woulda made his day,takin mickey outta me whilst lol watching me altering wc,dot worry i can take it lol,see you on next job lol........

i look back at some of my jobs and think WTH was i thinking but, it was all learning and i would never do it ever again

as far as i can say is congratulations for completing the job on your own
well done for not having a leak
and top marks for making the waste work, they can be very diffucult to work with

keep up the good work
quality will come with experience ( not saying that what you done wasnt good)

 

[bob the plumber]

ste b, where abouts in lancashire are you?

 

[Mike Jackson]

I'm afrain I'm having to agree with some of the coments on here about the look of it but I'll also try and offer a bit of constructive criticism.

I'd say your main problem has been a lack of planning with the pipework. Instead of spending a bit of time working out how you're going to do it, it looks like you've rushed in and made it up as you go along.

With the toilet I would have used an end feed tap connector and two end feed elbows, possibly a street in the ballofix if necessary and just gone straight across. It would have been quicker and looked a lot tidier.

With the basin I would have used two 45 bends to step the waste back to the wall and run the outlet from the chrome bottle trap straight back.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i agree with mike, with a bit of thought you could have done things better so they were more pleasing on the eye.

 

[Gray0689]

And I'll agree with jts plumbing over 4 years and you think that's good come on guys

 

[SimonJohns]

He may have been doin a little bit for 4 years. We prob do more in a week than ste b has done in that time

We've all gotten wet when we started

Give him a break

I know plumbers that have been doin it for 5 years. And they can't do a better job than that

And there's one in particular that is gas safe too!!!

 

[Best]

Trouble with untidy plumbing on show is you will be judged by it. If I came to a house done like that, I would think, must be diyer, what else is done wrong, have they soldered right? etc. I tend to point out really ugly plumbing, or work liable to give trouble to the people.
Try to replace, hide pipes where possible.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Well what can you say, if some of you guys think that this standerd of work is acceptable for some-one who is C&G and been at for over 4 + years, then what are your standerds like ?? Yes we all have to learn and we all make mistakes, but in all honesty would you accept this in your own house ? and would you be happy to pay for it ?
Comment for philtheflush ! I would be more than happy to take Ste B out for some prectical experance if he lived in this area, as for your comment on leaveing collage knowing everything, well I did it the old way ! Apprenticeship in the 60s and gess what ? it was in Manchester. Autograph in post.

 

[ste b]

Jts plumbing and gray obviously have not read other post by me on here,i dont remeber saying i have been doing plumbingfor 4 years,i do agree with some comments,and will take on-board for next time,and mike thanks for the constructive critisism................

 

[Best]

In fairness, you are man enough to show pictures of your work & take comments on it. Plus you didnt use plastic pipe plumbing like a lot would.

 

[ste b]

i nothing to hide best i learning,and i hate plastic,lol...........i not after a job from here,lol,just advice and thats exactly what i got,allready had an offer i cant refuse,so its all good...............

 

[Gray0689]

He may have been doin a little bit for 4 years. We prob do more in a week than ste b has done in that time

We've all gotten wet when we started

Give him a break

I know plumbers that have been doin it for 5 years. And they can't do a better job than that

And there's one in particular that is gas safe too!!!

I'm not disagreeing Simon but we kind of know when something don't just look right and I'm sorry that looks far from right it looked better on the before picture IMHO

 

[kay-jay]

ste b you seem to have a good attitude and are obviously keen to progress your skills and knowhow which imo is half the battle.

good luck mate,

 

[Gray0689]

i nothing to hide best i learning,and i hate plastic,lol...........i not after a job from here,lol,just advice and thats exactly what i got,allready had an offer i cant refuse,so its all good...............

I wish you the best of luck mate
My best advice is always look at the job and think would I be happy with that in my own house

 

[philtheflush]

jts you said it an apprentiship were are their apprentiships now. we all got to learn and if learning is by making mistakes well so be it but its a bit cruel asasinating some ones ability because its not as good as yours the biggest thing you lack when you leave college is confidence and by getting good advice helps with that because you have an idea of what youre going to face. anyway (1) is the plumbing different in manchester and (2) i hope you put a stamp on the envelope no hard feelings

 

[philtheflush]

ive got to say that pipe on the cistern dont half give me a laugh it looks like a water confuser which way is the water going good luck steve b

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hi Phil, sorry mate us old country boys dont earn enougth to buy stamps, not like you high flying city plumbers lol, Still think that ste b needs to spend some time with another plumber,to get some advise, may-be you could help if he is in your neck of the woods, Still Ive found some-one who bites very easey, may-be I can wind you up on next post, at least we can have a laugth about things, just my northern sense of humour.
:chillpill:

 

[philtheflush]

no worries i agree with you by the way im a taffy i live in caerphilly so hes abit far away but i guess a wind up keeps you on your toes

 

[jtsplumbing]

Cheers phil, did-not think the Welsh had a sense of humor, just large welly boots, are their any good looking sheep near you or are they all spoken for ?? any chance you could fix me up ?

 

[E4gas]

Ste b.. Is that the right fixing for the basin , i fitted the same one and used basin bolts , yours looks like it tilting forward

 

[E4gas]

The w/ c inlet looks a piece of art , a flexy tap con would have looked ok , all the best

 

[ste b]

jts said "Still Ive found some-one who bites very easey,"

One on every forum lol,which school did you say you went too lol,easy is easy,lol looking forward to your forum input.....

 

[Dannypipe]

Just read this thread and looked at the photos. It's not pretty but then you have allready been told that.

At least you are on here, trying to improve your skills, and despite the fact that the pipe work isn't good....you've taken the time to clean the joints up and probably taken great care in making them.

So in short, they won't leak.

I'd give you a good mark for effort, but execution falls short of the mark in my opinion. Keep trying and remember to try and keep things simple. It will look best that way.

Thanks for posting the pics. Makes the thread more interesting.

 

[scotty plumber]

Just looked at the pictures and the feed to the cistern is very very bad, as somebody else stated you could have cut in isolate valve lower down then made a neat offset straight up to tap con ( invest in a hilmor! )

 

[nickelarsed]

One thing I would add is that I notice you are putting ptfe around your isolation valves. They have an olive which makes the seal, the thread on them does not need ptfe because the water should never reach that far. Just make sure the pipe is engaged fully into the fitting and the olive is on straight, then tighten up. your wasting your time by putting tape on those threads and it will look unprofessional.

 

[Best]

You are right, - ptfe on valve threads! Def a no no! I would add that paste should always be used & to be a bit controversial, - I would avoid those ordinary ballofix valves anyhow, as they reduce flow, leak at seal where slot is, (especially on hot pipes) & often break. The better quality type that is full flow & is made same as a lever valve is best.

 

[scotty plumber]

Just looked at the pictures and the feed to the cistern is very very bad, as somebody else stated you could have cut in isolate valve lower down then made a neat offset straight up to tap con ( invest in a hilmor! )

Is there any reason why you did not just use a couple of bends on feed to cistern? Also the waste pipe on whb could have been altered from under pipe-box to tidy it up and also it look's as though you used the old bent soil connector which you would have probably been better replacing

 

[SimonJohns]

You are right, - ptfe on valve threads! Def a no no! I would add that paste should always be used & to be a bit controversial, - I would avoid those ordinary ballofix valves anyhow, as they reduce flow, leak at seal where slot is, (especially on hot pipes) & often break. The better quality type that is full flow & is made same as a lever valve is best.

I would of said that ptfe used correctly (on olive and not threads) is 100x better than paste for servicing.

But disagree on the valve but the quality of the valve. The tap that it was feeding appeared to have very thin flexis, so in this job it would of made very little difference

On bath taps I would say you have to have a full bore

 

[Best]

I would of said that ptfe used correctly (on olive and not threads) is 100x better than paste for servicing.

But disagree on the valve but the quality of the valve. The tap that it was feeding appeared to have very thin flexis, so in this job it would of made very little difference

On bath taps I would say you have to have a full bore

Appreciate that the flow in some cases won't be made any worse, or indeed matter, like feeding a toilet cistern, if using ballofix. And frankly, we have all used them, although I am not fond of them.
As to the ptfe / tape on olive choice, I always say paste, (just a smear) providing it is non hardening, as it will seal well & also makes compressing a joint easier because it means less friction. I don't see an issue with servicing problems using paste, unless it is Boss White type which will cause problems on hot pipes.
Someone on another thread suggested using gas tape over the olives, which sounds a good idea.

 

[GerrythePlumber]

It was always emphasised to me that pipework should take the shortest route, and formed bends are preferable to fittings.
Try to keep pipework clip distance from the wall and don' use dissimilar fittings if they are visible.
Neatness is what impresses the customer. It doesn't make it right just because it works. Would you buy a car with different coloured doors?

 

[Best]

It was always emphasised to me that pipework should take the shortest route, and formed bends are preferable to fittings.
Try to keep pipework clip distance from the wall and don' use dissimilar fittings if they are visible.
Neatness is what impresses the customer. It doesn't make it right just because it works. Would you buy a car with different coloured doors?

That makes perfect sense, - to a plumber, but with some of the public, you would have to actually show them the right way & the wrong way to do a job, before they might understand! I see ( & I am sure we all do ) lovely new bathroom jobs with the whole look spoiled because the pipes are in the wrong place. When I point this out to people, they usually stare at it for a moment & then say, " oh yes! I see what you mean! ".

 

[REDSAW]

Job completed this afternoon,i ended up bunging the tank and all draining went well,water was off approx 20 mins whilst i fitted new isoloation valve"s to new wash basin hw and cw,then i run every out-let in turn and carried out rest of work with only one small problem which was the chrome waste for basin,32mm my arse lol,fitted white compression fittings which i still not happy with,as i had to get bigger seals because the chrome pipe did not fit well into 32mm push fit at all,i had to but bigger seals to seal into the 32 mm compression fittings,something to bear in mind with these chrome basin traps, can you buy chrome fittings ? .... i never seen them.....................anyway cheers for all your comments,job done even had 3 cakes baked for me by the owners daughter lol..........

yes you can get chrome fittings at bnq. you only needed one!. and a s.s. flexi would look better dont think?
interesting mix though chrome and white, the only other place i have seen that is on the wifes car.lol.

 

[scotty plumber]

That feed to cistern gets worse every time i look, you should consider going back to change it

 

[ste b]

some people would say go away,but not me,i am going back to the house this week to sort out the pipework to W/C cistern,i did explain to customer why i have done the waste that way and they did not want to pay for the chrome fittings and chrome pipe, i could not get push fit fitting for the waste as the chrome pipe only measures 30mm (why i dont know) and they would not fit onto the fittings,so i had to get the compression ones and put different seals in to seal the dodgy chrome pipe that was supplied with the wash-basin,i could not see any other way i could have done the waste as it would not angle back to the wall rather than the side due to the fittings,so i am stuck with it,but as i said i spoke to the customer today and am going back this week,i agree it does look bad but @ college they drummed into us less fittings and use bends,i allready cut pipework and have the 90 yorkshire fittings ready to be installed,pictures will be posted of alltered work,as for the sink,it is bolted to the wall,but the customer told me to leave the old sink bracket in place to give extra support,cheers for all the input,its appreciated.........

 

[Best]

I feel the sink waste pipe could have stayed vertical & if you really needed it closer to the wall you could use 2 of 45 degree bends or the male & female angled bends (all in white).
The chrome trap could probably point straight back. Wonder if the larger type push on waste fittings - or m&f bends, would fit on the trap? They use a heavier rubber washer, so are universal.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

you could have probably cut the chrome pipe shorter and turn the trap towards the wall

 

[ste b]

All sorted now,cheers for all the comments,good and bad lol,pipework improved,the waste will stay the same this time, and more effort needed for next time lol............customer happy so i am also.....no leaks so soldering still 100% lol,new tools and equipment invested in,eg "CISTERN BUNGS" and a little bit more ideas from the forum which is all taken on board,not bad for free,them colleges should use these forums lol......cheers,looking forward forward to next task,could be new pessure differental valve on my boiler,or complete valve change,another washroom is in the pipeline with a shower cubicle,thatll be interesting..........

 

[ste b]

Oh and i worked on my first indirect system since leaving college,which was what this initial post was all about.........

 

[Best]

WC pipe looks decent in the photo now!
Still don't like that basin waste pipe with those bends, but not something to worry about.
Glad you are learning & trying to improve.

 

[SimonJohns]

well done for having the balls to go back and change the pipe

i thought your first effort was great and others will say im mad for that but its the effort that counts

 

[jtsplumbing]

Yes well done SteB looks 100% better than last time ! keep it up , Should have changed trap for white plastic, but somthing to remember next time.:hurray:

 

[SimonJohns]

Yes well done SteB looks 100% better than last time ! keep it up , Should have changed trap for white plastic, but somthing to remember next time.:hurray:

fanny trap would of been best

 

[philtheflush]

well done steveb all turns out ok in the end

 

[PlumbBobBob]

that would be ste b lol

 

[Admin]

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