Info for people considering fast tracking

[dontknowitall]

Start with a large fortune and you end up with a small fortune ...

Mind you, if it works, it's a good £10k well spent. My course cost around £5k and OFTEC another £2k but best £7k I've spent.

 

[fuzzy]

it can be a good investment, but the guy i spoke to hadnt had one days work since qualifying in tech certs. he had bought a van and tools etc, he was so proud to tell me about all these new gleaming tools, i felt sorry or him

 

[bikeman01]

It happened about 8 years ago and the industry trained 1,000s of people, hence now we have plenty...

mmm I remember the govt claims of a shortage of plumbers prompted massive marketing of plumbing courses by training centres and the promise of unrealistic earnings. Result a massive uptake in training, a surplus of trained plumbers with no experience and the skills shortage negated by an influx of foreign workers.

At no time during all this did the industry train up 1000s.

 

[fuzzy]

mmm I remember the govt claims of a shortage of plumbers prompted massive marketing of plumbing courses by training centres and the promise of unrealistic earnings. Result a massive uptake in training, a surplus of trained plumbers with no experience and the skills shortage negated by an influx of foreign workers.

At no time during all this did the industry train up 1000s.

the government cannot be responsible for centres promising unrealistic earnings. If i recall correctly it was mainly the press who made those claims.
I have never come across many foreign workers at all, however many people tell me they are there taking the jobs off newly qualified plumbers, i have not seen this, in fact i cannot think of one foreign plumber i have come across in merseyside
"At no time during all this did industry train up 1,000s" I'm sorry my friend but around 8,000 have completed the full NVQs during this period. Where did you base this claim from if i may ask

 

[tamz]

mmm I remember the govt claims of a shortage of plumbers prompted massive marketing of plumbing courses by training centres and the promise of unrealistic earnings. Result a massive uptake in training, a surplus of trained plumbers with no experience and the skills shortage negated by an influx of foreign workers.

At no time during all this did the industry train up 1000s.

The industry has always trained up new tradesmen to suit demand and i can assure you at the start of the 000's they trained up numbers to suit the demand.

The cries of shortages of plumbers was from the press and a few government ministers who wouldn't know a plumber if he kicked him and were hyped out of all proportion.

You want a plumber in the next hour and yes you have very few to choose from and you may not get one but, if you want one for tomorrow or the next day you can choose from nearly anyone you like. We do not spend our days sitting by the phone hoping it rings to do an emergency job. Most work is planned work. Saying that there are now 1000's of plumbers doing just that, sitting waiting on the phone to ring as the trade is over subscribed and there is comparitively very little work to be done.

Yes things will turn around once more and there will be more work, but it won't be for a good few years and will never get to the crazy heights of the past decade. Rates are also being driven down to a point where jobs are being offered at not much above minimum wage and work is being done at prices less than those charged 20 years ago. It takes a very long time for rates to recover. If there is a shortage of plumbers in a few years it will be because of the numbers of tradesmen leaving the trade to make a half decent wage elsewhere.

Fuzzy

The sites (any that are still going) are full of foreign workers. Not so many around this way doing jobbing plumbing.

 

[Ivor Bates]

I think you'll find that it was certain plumbing companies in London that were advertising for labour, who stated in their adverts that you could earn up to £50k pa. This was mainly the rip off merchants that worked on a 60/40 percentage. So an average job like changeing a 15/50 pump would cost anything upto £4-£500 however the bubble soon burst because once papers like the Sun and Evening Standard started writing about what plumbers can earn, everyone wants a slice of the action. The reallity is that very few plumbers were ever earning these kind of figures unless of course they were working 16+ hours a day. Some of my mates that were doing this all ended up getting divorced and losing everything simply because they gave up their family / social lives just to earn another tenner....

 

[fuzzy]

i haven't come across many tamz but im guessing they are in the major city's more

 

[bikeman01]

"At no time during all this did industry train up 1,000s" I'm sorry my friend but around 8,000 have completed the full NVQs during this period. Where did you base this claim from if i may ask

I accept that this is just a layman's view but I base it on taking an interest in the local job market and never ever seeing any vacancies over the intervening period since a shortage was publicised. I stand corrected if I am wrong.

And yes I do blame the government. Maybe not for the unrealistic wage claims but for their misinterpretation of statistics. They did the same with HIPs and when faced with the backlash of thousands of trainees who'd forked out £7000 they decided to extend it's remit to rental properties just to give these people work.

There is a lack of joined up thinkingin uk government regardless of who is in power.

 

[fuzzy]

my local college had 60 apprentices in 2004

the gov have made mistakes, but i think its unfair to blame this one on them. They put a lot of money into education, mid 2000s all adult courses for trades were free, obviously that couldnt continue

 

[GQuigley67]

not so long ago i done my apprenticeship, probably around the time the shortage was announced, and there were alot of plumbes at my college, aswell as all the other collegs in the city. So yes there are still apprenticeships, and you can only become a recognised plumber in scotland with an SVQ3 which is a 4 year apprenticeship, lvl 2 doesnt exist up here really...

I had about 3 guys in my class who were 40+ some others were 25, 28 etc while the majority of us were teenagers.

 

[fuzzy]

the gov have done their bit, not saying they are perfect obviously not but the last labour gov were good on education

some people feel hard done too now they struggle to convert their tc 6129's, i understand that and feel sorry for them but they should have done their home work better, not do it then blame plumbers who are struggling to make a living for not letting them in, it aint like that

 

[tamz]

What i find hard to comprehend is people who claim to have done their reasearch, spent X amount of thousands and cry they have no recognised qualification with no chance of a job. If they had really done their research they would find you don't need any qualifications to trade as a plumber. They could have bought a couple of books a half decent van and a good set of tools for the same cash. They still wouldn't be employable but could go do their own thing and make just as much of a mess up of things than if they had been "trained".
Theory training is nothing without practical experience and you learn that fastest by your mistakes. Wreck the odd house now and again and you'll remember what not to do :lol:

 

[GQuigley67]

lol true, after a few expensive public liability claims and feeling like a prat when asked to fix things you dont have a clue about

 

[fuzzy]

well said tamz, they appear to have researched and listened to the bits they wanted to hear, then blame lumbers for being obstructive.

with the new quals you dont even get a tech cert, you get to know your working towards!! so you dont even get any qual without a job, give it 12 months there will be some desperate people wanting jobs to justify all that money for no qual

 

[tamz]

When signing up to these courses it is a case of it is easy to believe someone when they tell you what you want to hear.

Later, it can be hard to listen to what you don't want to hear, by which time, the reality starts to sink in, which makes it painfull listening.

 

[bikeman01]

What i find hard to comprehend is people who claim to have done their reasearch, spent X amount of thousands and cry they have no recognised qualification with no chance of a job. If they had really done their research they would find you don't need any qualifications to trade as a plumber. They could have bought a couple of books a half decent van and a good set of tools for the same cash. They still wouldn't be employable but could go do their own thing and make just as much of a mess up of things than if they had been "trained".
Theory training is nothing without practical experience and you learn that fastest by your mistakes. Wreck the odd house now and again and you'll remember what not to do :lol:

So whats the problem then? Anyone whos done a course and has a bit of diy nounce can use what they've learnt and get on with it.

The only prob seems to be getting their portfolio for gas safe.

I guess once working in the industry for themselves they'll get experience and then through the contacts they make perhaps get that required portfolio.

I don't think these courses are a waste of money, they might be a bit expensive but accept that they just provide some theory and a bit of coursework to get you started. Go in with your eyes open and dont expect that a 4 week course + £7k to = new career.

Lets hope more people read these threads and attend these courses knowing what they are getting. Of course if they are being missold then there needs to be some wrist slapping.

I knew none of this yesterday but I think my eyes are now fully open.

 

[leelister6]

You also have to remember that a good reputation is extremely difficult to build and so very easy to lose! The first time a new business cocks a relatively simple job up through lack of experience, word spreads like wildfire and you may as well hang up yer pipeslice! You need to have the sense to know when to walk away from a job that is beyond you and not "Have a go, whats the worst that could happen!"

 

[bikeman01]

maybe, although 'Rogue Traders' suggests that some just have to change their company name to keep getting away with it.

I'm already self-employed so I know the value of a happy customer.

 

[fuzzy]

So whats the problem then? Anyone whos done a course and has a bit of diy nounce can use what they've learnt and get on with it. This is a very simplistic view, i dont think anyone with 'a bit of nounce' can do gas, as i previously said based on my experience those with a little knowledge are more dangerous. Plumbing is not just bathrooms, something else people need to realise

The only prob seems to be getting their portfolio for gas safe. The only prob? what about the plumbing nvq? what about a workplace recorder?

I guess once working in the industry for themselves they'll get experience and then through the contacts they make perhaps get that required portfolio. You need to be working with a gas safe registered engineer who is willing to sign to say you have done at least 140 days work on gas supervised by him/her, thats presuming you have go the nvq/s, without them its 240 days

I don't think these courses are a waste of money, they might be a bit expensive but accept that they just provide some theory and a bit of coursework to get you started. Go in with your eyes open and dont expect that a 4 week course + £7k to = new career. depends what the course is,, the 6129 has a poor reputation, however i maintain it is a very good course, better than people give it credit for, however its reputation is poor so for potential earnings afterwards it probably is a waste of money

Lets hope more people read these threads and attend these courses knowing what they are getting. Of course if they are being missold then there needs to be some wrist slapping. 'wrist slapping' bit late by then im afraid, 7k out of pocket and no career

I knew none of this yesterday but I think my eyes are now fully open.​Im glad to hear it, i hope people do this research sooner in future

 

[fuzzy]

maybe, although 'Rogue Traders' suggests that some just have to change their company name to keep getting away with it.

I'm already self-employed so I know the value of a happy customer.

Not a business plan i would recommend, do a bad job, change name, and so on. You wonder why these courses have a bad name?