Is FSD mandatory for hobs on house of multiple occupancy....?

[capitanpugwash]

Got a hob to install at a let property for a decent landlord. The house is rented to four sharers being four bedrooms and needs a new hob. He discussed extensively with the council whether this set up required registering as a HMO (House of Multiple Occupancy- not multi-dwelling) and did not fall under local council rules so this is not HMO. It is over 3 floors though.

I don;t think this requires a FSD on the hob according to the regs but have strongly recommended that he buy a hob with a FSD.

What is the black and white regs answer? 🙂

Thanks


cp

 

[GrahamM]

If the building contains more than one individual dwelling the cooker requires FSD's.

 

[REDSAW]

Its no,
but most now have fsd anyway.

 

[Puddle]

I would class the above as multiple occupancy,four individuals and their girlfriends living in the house
Just fit a hob with fsd,got an indesit the other day from appliances direct for £120,why mess about
If indeed you are doing for a decent Landlord,what is the problem,he should what a hob fitted with fsd what ever the occupancy,most of my decent landlords would

imho

 

[SimonJohns]

I think it should be mandatory to have fsd anyway

Before long it will be

The amount of times I've seen people just leaving the hob on slightly and not lit makes me worry

I got an fsd hob and would never go back


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[capitanpugwash]

To clarify- it does not contain more than one dwelling. It is a house and is one dwelling.

Black and white regs is what I am after. I am happy to recommend a hob with an FSD, which I have, but would like to know if it is mandatory.... I like to know whether I am recommending strongly or if I am informing that it is mandatory and required by regulations.

Anyone for black and white reference?

Ta

 

[oilygasman]

Mandatory in Ireland.

 

[REDSAW]

its a house containing one cooker.
how many live there is irelevant imo.

if it were a house split into flats each containing a cooker then thats an fsd in each.

i have been to a house to install a cooker today, it has a granny annex and 2 other cookers in the house, 6 live there, does that need to be fsd?

i could be wrong but, the purpose of a cooking appliance with an fsd is so that if the appliance left on and unlit, cannot cause a danger to others in the same building who are unaware of the gas escape and cannot gain access to turn it off.
highly unlikely if all the occupants use the same said cooker?.imho.

 

[BLOD]

"fsd compulsory in multi occupancy buildings since 2008" I guess it depends exactly what multi occupancy means.
Like the others I'd fit a hob with one anyway - Baumatic does one with a fsd for £105

 

[metaldust9]

carnt really see why you have an issue,you should be more worried about covering yourself and not be bothered over £20 plus if there was a futher rule change which will happen you,ll have to change it again and the landlord will say you should have fitted it at the time so ad just put one in anyway for piece of mind

 

[capitanpugwash]

Thanks for the answers. Some may think I'm being fussy and others say 'cover yourself', but imagine if your electrician came over to change your old smoke alarms and started telling you that you should install mains wired alarms as they all interlink and let you know if there was a fire throughout the house. They also don't rely on batteries.

Mine did, so I asked him if it was mandatory. He said not but he thought them invaluable and came highly recommended. I took them and appreciated his advice. I also thought him very professional. If he had said they were mandatory and I found out they weren't then I would have been unimpressed and would probably have not used him as he appeared either not to know the regs or be trying to stiff me for some extra cash. I think not to know exactly when they are required and when highly recommended can come across as unprofessional to some- it would to me!

Same here. Are they mandatory in a non-HMO, non-multi dwelling? What about HMO non multi-dwelling?

You will either get what I'm saying or not. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Puddle]

I think the confusion has arisen by the use of ''multiple occupancy'',as this is used in the landlords general house upgrade requirements and registration with the local council and councils having different interpretation of the regs in this matter
However with regards the topic of fsd's on hobs,my understanding is ,the regs are not linked directly to the ones above,if fact were out before the above but do use the same term with a different interpretation
If a house is rented and occupied by one family,then there is no need to have an appliance fitted with fsd,if you rent the house to two or more individual persons or families appliance with fsd should be fitted
This is to do with the legal responsibilities and liabilities between family members and unrelated individuals

This is how it was explained to me when the regs first came out and how I operate
imho

 

[metaldust9]

first and formost you should cover yourself and be safe for your customers

 

[kirkgas]

first and formost you should cover yourself and be safe for your customers

i agree with the sentement of you (and others statements) however i dont agree, first and foremost a working gas engineer MUST know and understand the regs and furnish the customer with such mandatory information, if after that we may decide to supply our opinion/advice expert or otherwise, there needs to be a clear distinction to the customer, as per the excellant advice from the spark about electric smoke alarms, too many of us decide we know bettter than the regs, and will come a cropper one day, even although the advice was well intended, if it is inaccurate and leads to a customer spending money they didnt have to you/I will look at best like a shark, and at worst an incompetant.

 

[metaldust9]

i agree with the sentement of you (and others statements) however i dont agree, first and foremost a working gas engineer MUST know and understand the regs and furnish the customer with such mandatory information, if after that we may decide to supply our opinion/advice expert or otherwise, there needs to be a clear distinction to the customer, as per the excellant advice from the spark about electric smoke alarms, too many of us decide we know bettter than the regs, and will come a cropper one day, even although the advice was well intended, if it is inaccurate and leads to a customer spending money they didnt have to you/I will look at best like a shark, and at worst an incompetant.

dont really get were ye coming from there kirkgas,basically he,s saying its a multiple dwelling but not made into flats so for the sake of £20 why not just fit it anyway to clear up any later confusion, would agree if it was a £600 boiler we was talking about then we,d be a shark ,but its a hob with fsd and maybe students who come in worse for wear and leave the gas on who,s gunner get the blame if owt goes wrong ,capitinpugwash so like i say go by the regs and cover yourself and be safe

 

[Steve @ TheHeatingHub]

If you are still after black and white stuff go to

[DLMURL]https://engineers.User PlumbersForums.net Instead - Copy the content, don't link to it.co.uk/Registered/TechnicalBulletins.aspx[/DLMURL] and search the technical bulletins, the one you are after is TB 015

 

[EPH]

I came across this after picking up a letting agents work. The previous GSR company they had fitted 6 in property's that had no FSD's and GSR are taking him over the coals for installing 6 appliances NCS.
3 of these are 2 bed flats and 3 are townhouses so I wouldn't entertain it if I were you.

 

[metaldust9]

there ye go everything ye need to no said by EPH,cutting corners comes back on you

 

[GrahamM]

I can't really see the confusion over this issue. Plane and simple if a building has a number of separate dwellings FSD's are required under the regs.
If one house has 10 people living in it FSD's are not a legal requirement, but best advice would be to advise on a cooker containing them.

 

[capitanpugwash]

i agree with the sentement of you (and others statements) however i dont agree, first and foremost a working gas engineer MUST know and understand the regs and furnish the customer with such mandatory information, if after that we may decide to supply our opinion/advice expert or otherwise, there needs to be a clear distinction to the customer, as per the excellant advice from the spark about electric smoke alarms, too many of us decide we know bettter than the regs, and will come a cropper one day, even although the advice was well intended, if it is inaccurate and leads to a customer spending money they didnt have to you/I will look at best like a shark, and at worst an incompetant.

Pure magic- thank-you for that Kirkgas! You have expressed exactly what I was trying to express....

 

[kirkgas]

dont really get were ye coming from there kirkgas,basically he,s saying its a multiple dwelling but not made into flats so for the sake of £20 why not just fit it anyway to clear up any later confusion, would agree if it was a £600 boiler we was talking about then we,d be a shark ,but its a hob with fsd and maybe students who come in worse for wear and leave the gas on who,s gunner get the blame if owt goes wrong ,capitinpugwash so like i say go by the regs and cover yourself and be safe

sorry, i mean i agree that for the sake of £20 you are right it would be quicker/easier to just fit one with an FSD, but for future reference and to be sure he is 100% on the ball he wants to know the exact info to give his customers

 

[wazzer]

I was called to fit a cooker with no fsd I told her to get a different cooker and give me a call when it turns up......a while later i was working next door and saw the lady and asked her about the cooker she told me she didnt call me cos her son fitted it so i lost a job trying to do the right thing and it was fitted by a non reg there is always someone who will fit um.

 

[Hybrid]

I was called to fit a cooker with no fsd I told her to get a different cooker and give me a call when it turns up......

Was it a flat for HMO? If not you shouldn't have refused the work.
Occassionaly i'm asked to do something which is ill conceived but as long as it's legal i'll offer my professional opinion then get on with it.

 

[wazzer]

I had a vision of gs stood there saying why did you fit it you know its wrong.
Can you still fit them and leave a NCS warning ?

 

[Hybrid]

It's perfectly legal and within the regs to fit a cooker without an fsd on the hob or grill as long as it isn't in a HMO (flats etc).
All ovens after (I think) 84 has an fsd on the oven. An fsd-less hob in a single dwelling house is fine.

 

[wazzer]

Yes it was in a flat ......I have also moved people in them old peoples homes and fitted their old cooker and dont feel good about that

 

[kirkgas]

Yes it was in a flat ......I have also moved people in them old peoples homes and fitted their old cooker and dont feel good about that

moving a punter and their cooker isnt covered by the requirement to fit FSD in multi occupancy, neither is fitting a second hand appliance which makes a mockery of the whole thing, they should have grew a pair and said "As of ??/??/2009 ALL new cookers MUST have FSD's," and any cooker fitted or moved after that must have them, as we couldnt have went round ripping out cookers as the change wasnt back dated but at some point they would have all disappeared, pressure from manufacturers to allow them in certain places to allow them to keep making cheap cookers was why the reg was watered down, with the result that people will buy the basic cooker and fit it in the flat with the manufacturers and reg writers not having any liability.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

I had a sacary experience myself with a faulty hob and so I think FSD should be mandatory for all.
I we had just moved in and i quickly discovered one ring didn't work right - on low the gas still came out but no flame.
Anyway,
I came home one day and opened the door with my not quite 2 year old son with me and the smell of gas was very strong.
I knew immediately it was the hob must have been left on.
Dilemma - what to do - we are stood outside a terraced house door on to the street.
I didn't feel i could leave my son outside so I took him in!
Trned off gas opened all door and windows and then we waited outside.
I know of a gas engineer who went into exactly the same situation in a different house, the boiler clicked on and it all exploded.
I think about the dangerous situation I took my son into
But it was also dangerous to leave it.

I think esp if multi-occupancy it should be.
And it amazing how much landlords are willing to not spend on their properties and ignore safety for the sake of a few pounds.