(co) bigger killer now or 20 years ago

[Reg Man]

Tip of the ice berg. I suspect there is so much under reporting of RIDDOR through CO relayed issues, that the stat's do not reflect the true picture.

 

[lame plumber]

if the gov researched and provided proper stats they would have to do something ie ban sale of gas products to diy and that isnt happening anytime soon

 

[Reg Man]

if the gov researched and provided proper stats they would have to do something ie ban sale of gas products to diy and that isnt happening anytime soon

It will never happen, freedom of trade and all that.

Just because a person buys a gas appliance it does not mean they will install it. Where do you draw the line. Gas Barbeques? Portable gas heaters? freestanding Cookers?

Unfortunately there are those out there that think they can do what ever they want, with no regard for legislation. Competents! Reg 3 GSIUR

 

[Gary71]

I think we've taken a step back with gas safety due to the lack of air pressure switches on gas boilers, APS were always handy for identifying flue faults as well as a flame picture.

A unconverted Vitodens with a working pressure of 70 mbar was very nearly the end of me last year, I'd advise any gas fitter to get a personal carbon monoxide alarm as mine saved me that day.

 

[Toxic Ted]

Im reading too many reports of gsr fitter being saved by personal CO alarms so it seems i had better get one sharpish......wonder if ray will do an offer for forum members?

 

[AWheating]

corgi do one for about £45.

 

[Pssst]

ESPs dont provide CO/Atmospheric detectors for its Engineers although i think one is now issuing PAMs (personal atmospheric monitors).I wonder how it can be considered safe to send an ESP bod to fumes/reports of CO and yet he has no means to safeguard himself?

 

[Reg Man]

ESPs dont provide CO/Atmospheric detectors for its Engineers although i think one is now issuing PAMs (personal atmospheric monitors).I wonder how it can be considered safe to send an ESP bod to fumes/reports of CO and yet he has no means to safeguard himself?

A CO incident a coulpe of years ago, in South Wales, involved the ESP man being overcome by CO in a cellar of a commerical office block. No personal CO detector. Can't understand why the ESP don't issue them out as a norm. But may be they do now?
The cause was a domestic GSR engineer changed the gas valve, the day before, on a commercial atmosphereic boiler and did not set the burner pressure or check the gas rate properly, this as well as defective ventialtion was the cause.

 

[tamz]

SGN (Scotland) have been issuing them for a while now. Maybe southern do to as they are part of the same group.

 

[Gasmancoops]

I believe all of the ESP's were looking at this issue and most were considering personal alarms for their first call operatives. However politically they did not want to go down the route of issue CO detectors or analysers for responding to reports of fumes/CO alarm activation as this opens up a whole new skill level for their staff which would involve training and all sorts of additional costs to them.

By issuing personal alarms only they can remain as TOFO's and just make safe.

 

[nicro3]

Sorry, but general CO suicides, are not included in the Advantica stat's.

Incorrect ! the biggest cause of CO deaths in this country are suicides. In the UK in 2012 there where over 6000 suicides, by far the most used method was CO poisoning

 

[tamz]

Incorrect ! the biggest cause of CO deaths in this country are suicides. In the UK in 2012 there where over 6000 suicides, by far the most used method was CO poisoning

Obviously not by sticking your head in the oven.
Hose in the car window will do that one so it is highly unlikely to be included in any Advantica reports.

 

[nicro3]

Exactly, read previous posts !!Obviously not by sticking your head in the oven.
Hose in the car window will do that one so it is highly unlikely to be included in any Advantica reports.

Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/g...-killer-now-20-years-ago-3.html#ixzz2NeFpDYly
​

 

[tamz]

I did read them and the comment was about Advantica collated gas related incidents which obviously doesn't cover some unfortunate who can't pay their bills topping themselves in the garage.
Advantica used to collate the information but it has now seemingly been passed to the Cross Government Group on Gas Safety and Carbon Monoxide Awareness.
Suicides, however they are carried out, do not fall into this category.
Read http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/cross-government-group-1011.pdf
The relevant information is near the end.

 

[simon0703]

Hate them too, fires are a grey area in my opinion. Got the new next book the other day and they are selling bioethonol fires. Apparently clean burning does not need vent or flue. That's a accident waiting to happen

 

[Reg Man]

Incorrect ! the biggest cause of CO deaths in this country are suicides. In the UK in 2012 there where over 6000 suicides, by far the most used method was CO poisoning

NICRO3 you have misunderstood my post. I was refering to Advantica Stats only, which is for CO poisoning on piped gas only.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

As I understand it there are 3 different types of fatality from CO poisoning:
1. Deliberate CO poisoning (eg suicide & murder)
2. In a fire (house fire forest fire etc)
3. Accidental - In the US they estimate about 1/3rd of accidental are due to domestic gas systems often heating appliances.

Accidental also includes things like using petrol powered machinery/generators in enclosed spaces (apparently that is a big problem in US).

I think the charity CO Gas Safety
gather the most comprehensive stats on accidental CO poisoning here.
They include accidental poisoning from any fuel not just gas.
Last time I looked their data was better than hse/riddor and I know their data is generally used by official (government) bodies.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm! Would not argue with training and certification but with the cost of it all. It seems silly to have to pay such high prices for ACS and Gas Safe registration which are basically all about safety matters whose costs are then passed on to the customers, raising the cost of living for all. And as said it does not seem to have raised the safety level very much.

 

[Bernie2]

I was reading through some mails and it appears to me, that the users seem to be to blame in many instances. I would say that it is inevitable when they usually know nothing much about gas safety. To me concentrating information just on GSR workers is plain silly. Its a bit like a car company making a car and not telling people how to use it and why they must use it in a certain way. Lets be honest, do people really realise how dangerous CO can be? The installer is not usually the person using appliances the majority of the time. I have been in houses where the fire front radiant's have been glowing a nice bright yellow, to find that the home owner or tenant thought there was nothing wrong. After all, its the user the gas regs are designed to protect not the installer, why keep them ignorant of how things work and what and why to look out for, it is after all usually their lives at risk not the installers?

 

[Reg Man]

There are many CO incidents which involve poor installation and or not serviced properly. Which is why public have a right and confidence that the gas fitter working in their home knows what he is doing and is safe to carry out the work, Hence GSR and ACS.