Landlords safety check problems?

[Foodface]

Been out to a landlords safety check today, entered the property the tenant shows me to the gas appliances boiler and two gas fires. Check the boiler all is fine, check the first fire and couldn't get it from the wall because it had been siliconed or no nails to the wall. Couldn't remove it to check flue and smoke test so I AR'd it. Sticker and disconnection.

Then turn my attention to other fire in living room, the coals are all falling to bits, the burner was all sooted up and had all black debris all over it. The seal round the fire was not good, no gas seal tape either. Not been serviced in years I reckon. AR and disconnection.

Leave the property now the landlord is complaining to letting agency saying they have never had any problems before and I don't know what I'm doing. To cap it off, the tenant neglected to inform me of another gas fire in a bedroom so I missed that one and now am worried I've left myself open to problems should someone end up with CO poisoning. Am I liable for the unseen fire?

 

[mfgs]

Bit of a grey area, as you cant walk around someones house looking for gas appliances without their permission. All you can do is ask them what gas appliances they have and go and check them. Did you smoke test either fire? Because if so you should have been checking the chimneys route upstairs and I am guessing the other fire will be above one of the fires on the same chimney breast. Sounds like you were right to disconnect the other two, landlords will complain about anything.

 

[lame plumber]

if u disconnected them surely they should have been ID status or you should have just turned them off.

 

[TBServices]

Agreed. Disconnect is an I.D. as is not being able to prove the flue is sound.

Although you did the right thing to disconnect anyway IMO

 

[Foodface]

Yep got myself in a muddle with terminology stickers were I.D as was action but paper work says AR. Been one of those weeks, had a customer give me an ear full over flues in voids but saving that story for another day, plus it hasn't snowed here properly. Gutted.

 

[migoplumber]

i know many engineers disagree, but i would always cap an AR and worry about the consequences of that, rather than turn it off knowing full well the guy is going to turn it back on the moment i leave and worry about the stupid guy killing himself. i know which i prefer to lose sleep over.
foodface, if its the only paperwork you do all day, no jobsheets, no timesheets, no crosswords, nothing else matters. get your warning notices done correct cos they the only thing that will keep you out of nasty times.
ime always behind on my paperwork, but them warnings notices i write are bob on, and cos mine go back to an office i phone photo them and forward to my personal email so no matter what happens, my bum is always clear !

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i know many engineers disagree, but i would always cap an AR and worry about the consequences of that, rather than turn it off knowing full well the guy is going to turn it back on the moment i leave and worry about the stupid guy killing himself. i know which i prefer to lose sleep over.
foodface, if its the only paperwork you do all day, no jobsheets, no timesheets, no crosswords, nothing else matters. get your warning notices done correct cos they the only thing that will keep you out of nasty times.
ime always behind on my paperwork, but them warnings notices i write are bob on, and cos mine go back to an office i phone photo them and forward to my personal email so no matter what happens, my bum is always clear !

good advice Shaun

 

[Reg Man]

Yes, difficult when the landlord is up against you. Why did he employ you to do the safety check if he did not like what you found? Your only doing your job and it is his bum on the line if you let anything go.

 

[lame plumber]

if its dangerous enough to cap it off then id it, if its at risk then its not going to kill them immediately so just advise and turn off, only leaving yourself at fault for mis stating a situ and being stung by some solicitor for criminal damage etc.

 

[GrahamM]

if its dangerous enough to cap it off then id it, if its at risk then its not going to kill them immediately so just advise and turn off, only leaving yourself at fault for mis stating a situ and being stung by some solicitor for criminal damage etc.

Got to agree to with you there LP.
The regulations are there to be followed and for the most part are quite clear. They are there to protect us as well as the customers and to make these up as we go along is unprofessional. I am not saying the regs are perfect and there are long overdue changes, but I do agree that if you are not 100% sure and cannot receive any help or guidance at the time from someone more experienced then always err on side of caution.

I work on a lot of fires and AR a handful every week or so for similar issues to to the OP.
If I AR an appliance it is fully documented and explained to customer, then I go home knowing I have acted in a professional manner in line with my training, following the rules and regulations as they stand.

If we all start capping AR situations, where do we draw the line?
I AR'd a gas meter yesterday due to the rear entry gas pipe through back of box not being spiggoted and sealed. Should I be capping the meter in future?

 

[AMGasServices]

Most landlords are useless and agents want everything cheap. They hate spending money. However, other engineer will go and say its all ok.

I went to one premises the oven failed its because I got a high flame (safety device failed) (ID) damaged phial possibly and the boiler flue was built in the cavity (ID) and wasn't working the air pressure switch needed changing. There was no earth bonding on the meter either.

There was only these two appliances.

I capped the meter. Did all the paper work. Explained to the customer.

The landlord got another engineer out he passed everything and disappeared.

 

[Foodface]

I agree that the paperwork side of this job was mis handled by my self, but I stand by the actions I took cos I don't care about landlords taking legal action against me or my company if I've acted with the intentions of protecting a tenants welfare who is non the wiser as to the situation they could potentially be in. I would rather disconnect a fire I deem as being unsafe then get a phone call telling me a tenant has suffered CO poisoning, regardless of whether I was correct or incorrect to AR or ID it. The fires were unsafe and therefore my actions were right.

Any way as it happens the landlord has called the agent and confessed to getting it done on the cheap, the fella who installed the glued in fire has been doing the certs previously. I want his details cos I want to know if he's on the register and they have asked me to quote making the appliances safe.

 

[lame plumber]

Most landlords are useless and agents want everything cheap. They hate spending money. However, other engineer will go and say its all ok.

I went to one premises the oven failed its because I got a high flame (safety device failed) (ID) damaged phial possibly and the boiler flue was built in the cavity (ID) and wasn't working the air pressure switch needed changing. There was no earth bonding on the meter either.

There was only these two appliances.

I capped the meter. Did all the paper work. Explained to the customer.

The landlord got another engineer out he passed everything and disappeared.

so if you know this and have been back riddor it/report to gas safe/local trading standards/gas supplier to be cut off you can still drop in from on high if you know its dangerous and you feel unhappy

 

[Foodface]

Spoke to the landlord, got the fella's name who allegedly installed it and signed off last years cert. Found him on GSR, should I be reporting him? As far as I'm aware no plumber/gas fitter worth their salt would install a gas fire with silicone!

 

[AMGasServices]

Well I will be going to that property once I've got my payment in full from the agent and then will riddor it.

 

[Whn1]

Spoke to the landlord, got the fella's name who allegedly installed it and signed off last years cert. Found him on GSR, should I be reporting him? As far as I'm aware no plumber/gas fitter worth their salt would install a gas fire with silicone!

Prolem with that is that anyone could have fiddled with it within the time he left and you returned.

 

[migoplumber]

for me its not about making up or changing the regs as i see fit.
its not just about getting paid for the job i have done either. or risking not getting paid if the landlord/custard dont like what i tell them.
it is about being proffesional and getting the job done safetly, and knowing i aint going to cause or allow ( by action or inaction ) somebody to get hurt or kill themselves.
and thats the reason i cap. its all well and good having your paperwork perfectly correct and in order, and if custard dies from his own stupidity thats down to him, you are not to blame for
that, but i for one would spend the rest of my life thinking about how i could of prevented that from happening.

 

[buckley plumb]

in my opinion you acted on safety and did the correct thing - iam sick of the landlords i worked for saying well it never had problems before - all i tell him now is if he wants it done right and safe he takes my advise or go and get a monkey that will pass anything