legionnaires risk assessment

[merv]

Hi, I have been approached by a letting agent today that I look after. They are saying it is now law that legionnaires risk assessments should be carried out on all rented properties.

Has anybody heard of this because I haven't and if so, will it be a good idea for me to do a legionnaires course.

Or is it just one big pain in the butt !!

Your thoughts please!!

 

[turnpin]

Welcome to the forums Paul and many thanks for your generous offer....regards Turnpin🙂

 

[Welder]

Thanks Paul and welcome.
The BS I referred to was letting agents trying to scare landlords of non commercial businesses, i.e. letting in normal domestic situations, into expensive and unnecessary checks that are adequately covered under existing legislation. Basically creating fear, uncertainty and doubt in residential landlords.
Your offer is both appreciated and noted so expect to get questioned 😉

 

[finchy01]

Here we go. Day 1, lesson 1. Basic I know but I'm covering my arse. What constitutes as a dead leg? A standard ov system with 1 bathroom and an ensuite. Potential dead legs are any outlets. As long as they are flushed through regularly (10 minutes every 7 days was what we used to do at a commercial property I worked at) and shower head disinfected every 6 months. Am I right in this or have I totally missed the point?

 

[Welder]

So far as I understand, a dead leg is a length of pipe 3 or 5 times the diameter of the pipe. So, 15mm pipe anything over 45mm in length. 22mm pipe anything over 66mm in length.
I'm sure it's actually very small in length, and can well understand why, but not sure of the exact multiplier. Would appreciate someone jumping in here 😕
If it can be flushed I'm quite sure its not considered a dead leg. As you say tho it must be flushed to remain safe.

 

[Chuck]

So far as I understand, a dead leg is a length of pipe 3 or 5 times the diameter of the pipe.

WRAS seems to allow a maximum length of twice the pipe diameter:

WRAS Dead legs

The water in such a dead leg will be stagnant under normal conditions but keeping it short is supposed to allow the contents get hot enough for thermal disinfection to occur.

 

[zzzjim]

Do we need to look out for abandoned kitchen's ?
Piped up in saggy plastic !
Black mouldy bits - Just my imagination !
" Various plumbing materials have been evaluated for their ability to support the growth of Legionella (and other bacteria). Copper pipe is inhibitory, whereas plastic (PVC) pipe will support the attachment and subsequent growth of bacteria- including Legionell "
... or is this just the copper industry (Doing like the Tobaco Industry )

 

[Welder]

WRAS seems to allow a maximum length of twice the pipe diameter:

WRAS Dead legs

The water in such a dead leg will be stagnant under normal conditions but keeping it short is supposed to allow the contents get hot enough for thermal disinfection to occur.

I was close ;-) Wrong but close...

 

[Chuck]

I was close ;-) Wrong but close...

I think that this is one of those 'rules' that has tightened over the years. A decade or two ago the '6-d' rule, was common, these days the World Health Organisation recommends 1.5-d for potable water systems.

My opinion is that best practice in 2017 is 'no dead legs' but it's not always feasible.

It used to be common practice to install a vertical dead leg intended to trap air next to ball valves to prevent water hammer. (I say 'common' because I've seen it on several occasions but I don't actually know whether it was ever 'standard' thing to do.) Goodness knows what's inside one of them after it's been in situ for 50 years...

 

[finchy01]

So when carrying out a risk assessment are dead legs acceptable so long as they are noted and taken as an increased risk anf should be advised they are removed. Or is it comoulsary to remove any dead.legs that are found? Obviously without ripping the whole house apart one could never be sure to have found them all! What about disused washing machine/dishwasher feeds that are just iso valves off. They are everywhere!

 

[Welder]

Even worse, if a dead leg is defined as something of 1.5 pipe dia you can not install drain offs as its impossible to do them in less! What a bloody joke. Is it any wonder the cowboys get so much when those who care are hoist by their own petard. The regulatory world needs to wake up IMHO Rant over 😎

 

[Leezygeezer]

One of the natural properties of copper is that it contains a biocide. Which is of course the enemy of biofilm. While it doesn't destroy all bacteria it inhibits proliferation of the water borne bacteria.