Microbore problem ? What to do next ?

[J Paul]

Hello
21 year old house with microbore central heating ... new central heating pump, new 3 mid port valve, new Worcester Bosch Greenstar Ri 15kW boiler + Magnaclean + full powerflush all done 2 months ago. Out of 15 rads in 4 bedroom house, I would say 9 work near 100 % but in main bedroom radiator not working ( with pipe feed in cold ) & same in utility room. Downstairs toilet ~ 30 % heat & ensuite bathroom similar. One out of three rads in living room working ~ 30 % ( others fine ) but this one has hot pipe feed & cold at bottom half suggesting silted up to me. Also landing rad about 40 % heat. Is it worth me removing rads not working well & desilting them .... ? I appreciate those with no heat may require re-piping but if system was desilted more .... could pump then be able to circulate water again ?! Any advice welcome !
j paul

 

[SimonG]

Get the installer back.

 

[joni os]

Did British Gas do the power flush. Get back whoever did it and get it done properly before warranty on boiler becomes void. Micro bore difficult to power flush but if they took your money they took on the problem.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

you arnt going to like the answer re pipe it in 22mm (main runs) and 15mm (each rad)

 

[ShaunCorbs]

also boiler sounds a wee on the small side esp with 15 rads hope there all well under 1kw

 

[Jay The Plumber]

you arnt going to like the answer re pipe it in 22mm (main runs) and 15mm (each rad)

haha, beat me to it..
did one just like it last week.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

note hes got two threads running lads

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/central-heating-forum/87717-microbore-problem-what-do-next.html

 

[J Paul]

No it was a local company who have great reports on checkatrade ..... but I was suprised by their not wanting to remove previously sludged up rads & then flushing through the sludge as presumed even with new boiler + filters + chemical de sludge ... A microbore system would warrant more time & effort to ensure a small calibre piping system is properly cleaned ? Thanks for your reply

 

[Dotty]

Duplicate threads merged.

OP. This is classed as spamming the forum.

Don't do it. Next time you, and your posts, will vanish.

 

[J Paul]

Thanks ! Am sure that would sort it ... just trying to keep costs down but if course in the long run ..... !

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No it was a local company who have great reports on checkatrade ..... but I was suprised by their not wanting to remove previously sludged up rads & then flushing through the sludge as presumed even with new boiler + filters + chemical de sludge ... A microbore system would warrant more time & effort to ensure a small calibre piping system is properly cleaned ? Thanks for your reply

Doesn't mean anything and just going by ear sounds like your boiler is too small which may be part of the problem

 

[Jay The Plumber]

have you checked the condition of the magnaclean ?

 

[newcastle phill]

Its ok saying get the installer back but clearly the system the new boiler is connected too is piped rubbish.

Its hard knocks but there is only so much an installer can do when the owner doesnt want to pay. Even the best installer cannot turn vinegar into wine.
We've all seen it.
I quoted the other day. Main FnR in 15mm straight off boiler all way through a 4 bed detached house, compression everywhere and then microbore off that. Customer didnt want to pay for pipework even after I explained .
So i explain it may only work so well and so efficient. Never heard back. Some think a new boiler will cure everything.
(Not a dig at OP - just a general observation )

 

[SimonG]

Its an installer issue. Why do a job you know is wrong? Walk away not worth damaging your reputation.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Back on the same old story, customer only wants cheep job, but also think that installer has undersized boiler 15 rads + hot water, in what sounds like quite a large property, Power flush on micro-bore system ! never works, be interesting to hear installers side & what he advised, Unless of course this was a DIY project as he seems keen do things himself rather than call back installer

 

[oz-plumber]

Its an installer issue. Why do a job you know is wrong? Walk away not worth damaging your reputation.

Wouldn't you include a disclaimer in your quote stating that you can only warrant the correct operation of the boiler, not the system.

I'm sure we've all done boiler changeovers where there is a problem radiator or two that don't work. When further investigation is done, they would never have worked.

But the customer swears that they have always worked

 

[joni os]

Fitness for purpose and design liability lies with the party that carried out the power flush.
The OP has commented on the brevity of this operation so presumably done by installer. The difficulty of flushing a micro bore is well established so anyone undertaking the work should take all necessary steps to overcome the difficulty.
It is often difficult to get a fixing in a wall but few of us would leave a boiler partially supported then deny liability and blame the client if it collapsed.

 

[newcastle phill]

Fitness for purpose and design liability lies with the party that carried out the power flush.

What a load of rubbish.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Fitness for purpose and design liability lies with the party that carried out the power flush.
The OP has commented on the brevity of this operation so presumably done by installer. The difficulty of flushing a micro bore is well established so anyone undertaking the work should take all necessary steps to overcome the difficulty.
It is often difficult to get a fixing in a wall but few of us would leave a boiler partially supported then deny liability and blame the client if it collapsed.

So does this point more to a DIY job, ? Undersized boiler / system left not fully working / Boiler not fixed to wall (AR)

 

[joni os]

What a load of rubbish.

A quick Google search will establish the facts. Including the obligation to use reasonable skill and care.

 

[newcastle phill]

And 95% of whats being flushed cannot be seen.
There is no way any one guarantees a powerflush to work. There could be 10 dead legs and crushed pipe under the floor for all we know.
And i suspect that I, like others offer no indemnity against someone elses work that cannot be seen. Its done on a best endeavours basis with potential risks and end results outlined. if it was designed by a monkey thats for him to take up with the monkey.

If you look on google you will find many people swear black is infact white

 

[oz-plumber]

Does the 21 year old system have TRV's.

Could be as simple as the valves need replacing due to pins being stuck.
Probably best to replace the rads not working and the valves as well.

 

[jtsplumbing]

A quick Google search will establish the facts. Including the obligation to use reasonable skill and care.

Hi joni os, you make lots of comments about skill's & obligations, may I ask what you do for a living ?

 

[newcastle phill]

It is often difficult to get a fixing in a wall but few of us would leave a boiler partially supported then deny liability and blame the client if it collapsed.

Completely different story.
If i put that fitting on or screw in - i am liable to ensure due care and diligence were used.

Your a little confused

 

[joni os]

Hi joni os, you make lots of comments about skill's & obligations, may I ask what you do for a living ?

As a 3rd party defendant, now known as part 20, in a court case that dragged on for 3 years, being obliged by financial constraints to conduct my own defence acted as an education. By the time of the full hearing the original claim of £15000 was inflated by plaintif and defendant's legal fees to £240,000. For which I would be liable had the case gone against me. In the event the defendant agreed an out of court settlement, on the day of the final hearing and I was told to F/ off. Knowing that any action by me to recover costs would not make commercial sense. Henceforth, I am acutely attuned to legal niceties and would not wish anyone on this forum to go through a similar experience.

 

[newcastle phill]

Seems like hes a defendant lol [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12]
At 240k must have been a british gas powerflush lol

 

[joni os]

Seems like hes a defendant lol [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12]
At 240k must have been a british gas powerflush lol

No it was solicitors at £170/hour.

 

[oz-plumber]

1400 odd hours of solicitors fees.....must have been some case!!!!

 

[joni os]

1400 odd hours of solicitors fees.....must have been some case!!!!

Yes and 400 hours+ unpaid of my time. The process involves preliminary hearings. disclosure, requests for further details, more disclosure, more requests for further details and more days in court on pre trial procedures.
First they question what you did, then what you should have done, then what you might have done and if fault can't be found, they blame you for what you didn't do.
Even valuing the work involved a court expert who charged £8000 to value the £15000 claim.
If you have doubts about aspects of a job, put them in writing. This is what a Court will expect

 

[stevetheplumber]

i can see your not bitter about it

 

[jtsplumbing]

Still not saying what he does for a living ! or what he did to get taken to court (No smoke with-out fire) Training has a Solicitor maybe ?? :book:

 

[gassafe]

If it was done on the cheap then probably just 4 faulty trv's lol

 

[SimonG]

I thought this thread sounded very diy.

 

[harrygashull]

Get it repiped... taking rads off and flushing will help slightly but you might aswell just replace the lot...

power flush wont really do anything especially when there seems to be a complete blockage to some rads.