Need some inspiration....

[Riley]

I'll try and keep this short

third floor flat, mains coming in, in 15 mm

tenant has complained of poor waterflow at all outlets other than kitchen sink cold.

At present she has a Fortic cylinder heated by an economy seven immersion heater Plus a lower booster immersion which is on the same level as the rest of the flat. Hence poor hot flow. Can't pump it as hot water would be gone in an instant. Can't fit unvented as I don't think the incoming mains would cope. I can quite easily get Mains cold to the whole flat but am struggling to understand where the cold feed comes from One would assume a cold water storage cistern. However I am unable to find this there is a loft space immediately above flat however this is empty. Just don't want to leave a massive dead leg as it's obviously a shared dwelling.

Does anyone have any pearls of wisdom for me as I think I should have walked away from this job already.

Many thanks as ever Matt

 

[Leo21]

You've answered your own question, walk away. Perhaps ask for the relevant information, and tell her you'll pop back when she's got it.

 

[Riley]

It's a rental sadly and she's taking the letting agent to court for basically ignoring all her requests re things not working. They are obviously now up in arms wanting it sorted soon as.

 

[Neil K]

If you can find the space, a normal cold water tank up on a shelf as high as possible feeding a normal sized cylinder, both feeding a pump. If you've got the space that is, or can make the space (relocate and or knock up a small stud) and last but not least if the powers that be are willing to pay for it

 

[Riley]

That's the key isn't it. I think I'd struggle to get more than a meter up in the loft. It's very confined

 

[Leo21]

As a side note, what are the legal requirements hot water flow? How on earth would you take someone to court for having a combination cylinder. Which is an approved recognised method of supplying hot water.

 

[AlexGas]

Can't fit unvented as I don't think the incoming mains would cope.

That doesn’t mean there’s not enough water coming from the street – measure!?

 

[Riley]

That doesn’t mean there’s not enough water coming from the street – measure!?

I do agree however the flat is 3 floors up and in 15mm the whole way.

I will test it but I'd always been led to believe that you shouldn't do unvented in less than 22

 

[Riley]

As a side note, what are the legal requirements hot water flow? How on earth would you take someone to court for having a combination cylinder. Which is an approved recognised method of supplying hot water.

i don't think the legal issue is just the water. I think it's a culmination of things.

 

[WaterTight]

i take it the taps aren't high pressure jobbies with twisted flexi's and reduced bore iso's underneath?

 

[Riley]

Taps are all hard piped with no isos

 

[TFGplumbing]

Electric combi ;-)

 

[Riley]

Run, run away quite quickly

 

[TFGplumbing]

Run, run away quite quickly

run when she gets her electric bill haha

 

[Neil K]

That's the key isn't it. I think I'd struggle to get more than a meter up in the loft. It's very confined

A metre is all you need once you put as much storage as you can get in and a negative head pump. It all depends what the powers that be are willing to pay for

 

[Riley]

A metre is all you need once you put as much storage as you can get in and a negative head pump. It all depends what the powers that be are willing to pay for

️️Agreed this is the problem I have. I don't even know if I can go in the loft. No one seems to be able to tell me. I was just thinking of maybe going to them with a couple of ideas but don't seem to be able to get to that stage

 

[Leo21]

You have to be very careful with lofts in flats, most of the time they don't belong to the flat. Just out of interest, what's the dhw flow on an electric combi.

 

[Riley]

Not a scooby mate. I think they could just fit an electric shower here and just improve the situation for the tenant as her current shower runs out of hot water after like 4 minutes she might the. Be able to live with the flow at other outlets

 

[Neil K]

️️Agreed this is the problem I have. I don't even know if I can go in the loft. No one seems to be able to tell me. I was just thinking of maybe going to them with a couple of ideas but don't seem to be able to get to that stage

If you fit a negative head pump you won't need to go into the loft

 

[Riley]

Difficulty is though that a pump will drain the cylinder within minutes unless it was like 0.25-0.5 of a bar. Which I don't think exists

 

[Neil K]

You get rid of the fortic cylinder and put as big a tank in as high as possible INSIDE the flat and a normal size cylinder underneath it. Adequate cold and hot storage.

 

[Riley]

It's an option and thank you very much for the idea. I fear my restrictions here are going to be space as there is none. I think the key is to find out about the loft space.

 

[stevetheplumber]

tennant cant take them to court for low pressure providing there is hot and cold running water thats it
had this with a friends flat tennant threatened all sorts as soon as she moved in as her push on taps shower didnt work as it was fed from a fortic just told her the reason there was no shower in the flat was due to low pressure and no tiling around bath for one so she wasnt allowed to use one
lots of low rent flats have this claause in the tennancy agreements
if the dont like it they can always pay more fore a different flat

 

[Riley]

tennant cant take them to court for low pressure providing there is hot and cold running water thats it
had this with a friends flat tennant threatened all sorts as soon as she moved in as her push on taps shower didnt work as it was fed from a fortic just told her the reason there was no shower in the flat was due to low pressure and no tiling around bath for one so she wasnt allowed to use one
lots of low rent flats have this claause in the tennancy agreements
if the dont like it they can always pay more fore a different flat

Cheers for the reply Steve.

Im with you re the flow issues. I think it's just the last in a long list of issues the tenant has. I think the letting agent / landlord is just going for a couple of supposed quick fixes to try and placate her

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Sounds like the agent/landlord ain't paying for anything if she taking them to court.

This sounds like a dog job. How are you getting paid? Who called you in?

If tenant, will they pay?

If agent/LL get money up front.

You don't want to waste your time.

 

[Neil K]

Electric shower off the mains probably easiest option

 

[Millsy 82]

What about a thermal store? Although I would imagine that would need 22mm to it as well.