New bathroom plumbing help please

[Taryn Hauritz]

Hi there,

I'm very new to plumbing and have successfully put in two sinks and a shower/bath from scratch without any leaks (it did take a long time). The problem I seem to be having at the moment though is that when I use the mixer valve to fill the bath something weird is going on with my water pressure. It starts slowly and then after 10-30 seconds the water pauses very briefly and then full pressure starts.

I haven't noticed a problem with the bathroom sink, but when I turn on the hot water in the kitchen the pressure drops compared to just cold water. I'm not sure if these two issues are related.

Any idea as to what might be happening and how I can attempt to fix it? I had a new boiler installed. Could it be that or my dodgy plumbing???

Much appreciated,

Taryn

 

[Riley]

Are there any pumps involved pumping your hot water??

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

No pumps. Could the bath fill be related to some dodgy pipework? (I had to add extra pipe to get it to fit and it goes up and down slightly...)

 

[Riley]

does sound a bit like air can you take some pics of the pipework

 

[Riley]

Was it a combi boiler fitted?

 

[jtsplumbing]

Faulty or cheep bath mixer

 

[Old Account]

Get a professional in to have look at this it's cheaper than doing something wrong

 

[Masood]

Are there any pumps involved pumping your hot water??

My first thought as well!

 

[AlexGas]

 

[Rckape]

If you have a combi boiler then you may have a valve like a combi-smart or combi-save fitted.

These restrict the flow on the hot water while the boiler gets up to temperature as an energy saving measure.

This would affect the hot water flow at all outlets and have no effect on cold outlets.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Thanks Rckape, I've tested it and that seems to be the issue as I have a new combi boiler and the problem disappears when it's just cold water. Is there anything I can do about that? Thanks again!

 

[gassafe]

Thanks Rckape, I've tested it and that seems to be the issue as I have a new combi boiler and the problem disappears when it's just cold water. Is there anything I can do about that? Thanks again!

You'd see below the boiler if you had a combi save device fitted as there not that common on installations..

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

On further investigation that doesn't appear to be the problem. Now that the shower is connected, I've taken a film which shows what I'm talking about. The pause after 30 seconds is very pronounced and just not good enough. When I mentioned it to my gas guy he said there's nothing that can be done. That's obviously not the case, but wondering if there's anything someone can suggest I try myself. Is it to do with the council block my flat is in, my new boiler or a beginners plumbing fault?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBB3tFFcAoY&feature=youtu.be


N.B. If I'm unable to get help on this forum I will certainly get a professional in, but please do not post unless you have something helpful to suggest.

 

[Staffy85]

does this happen on any other outlet other then that shower? if not then its to blame ... the 30 seconds that it takes to do that on the shower, is that the time its taking for hot water to reach it? if so then I would be thinking its faulty and its shutting itself down in that its protecting you from getting scolded even though that's not the case, just a thought..

 

[joni os]

Unscrew the shower head and see what happens. If air in pipework, increased flow with head removed will sometimes push air out of pipe.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Very good point about it being the shower. I don't have a problem with any of the sinks. I have been playing around with turning the water from cold to hot and seeing if I can work out if it's related to the hot water but it just seems to be a bit funny in general. When it's just cold water there's sometimes a two second delay before the water comes out.

If there's an issue with the shower valve is there something I can do to repair it? (After taking all the new tiles off)!!!

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

I had the same problem whether the shower head was on or off. The bath filling from the valve is also temperamental...

 

[yphg]

Hi are the taps fitted with flexi hoses ?

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Copper pipes with pushfit connections...please don't judge. I wouldn't do it this way again but I was making do with materials I already had!!

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Obviously I have compression fittings from out of the shower mixer valve...

 

[joni os]

Any non return valves or filters on your valves. Sounds like interruption in cold supply that causes thermo valve to do what its meant to and cut off scalding water.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Ah that sounds interesting. I think I'll have to have another look at the installation instructions. It makes sense that that's what's happening so perhaps there's just an adjustment I can make. I noticed that when I put the water on the hottest setting it wasn't that hot. Maybe related to this problem. Thanks!

 

[Chalked]

Is your shower suitable for your system? Some are made for Gravity hot and cold only.
What mske snd model is the mixer?

 

[kris]

Is your shower off the mains or is it gravity , have you a combi ??

 

[kris]

If all your other outlets are ok the problem is the shower , but does it not happen with the bath aswell ? I see you wrote bath / shower , plus what extra pipe did you need to instal , was it an electric shower previous then you put in a hot for the mixer?

 

[joni os]

Turn down temperature of hot water at combi until you get 43 C at sink with just hot tap.
If shower then functions OK, cold supply problem confirmed.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

I have a new combi boiler and the mixer is this one. The issue must be with the mixer valve as it feeds the shower and bath which are the only places where I have a problem.

https://victoriaplum.com/product/matrix-oval-triple-valve-conc19

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Thanks joni... I will definitely test that out!

 

[joni os]

Following your link you have both check valves and filters. Remove, flush pipework, clean filters and reassemble.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

I was just watching a YouTube video out troubleshooting shower valves. Looks like that's what I need to do, thanks. Should this happen on a new fitting or did I miss a step out when installing?

Sounds like I might not have to take off my new tiling...yay!

 

[joni os]

You missed the bit about taking out the check valves and flushing the pipework leading to the valve.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Yes!! Lesson learned. Hopefully I can post good news tomorrow that I've resolved the issue - thanks for all the help!!

 

[kris]

That valve is just for a shower with two outlets , a fixed head and a sliding rail, did you say it feeds the bath or am I picking u up wrong , ???

 

[kris]

It's not designed to feed a bath just , fixed, rail or jets ,

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Yes, it has a temperature control and two outlets. One for the shower head and one for the bath. I have two of these in my home...both working well. This is the first time I've installed myself though!

 

[stevetheplumber]

Yes, it has a temperature control and two outlets. One for the shower head and one for the bath. I have two of these in my home...both working well. This is the first time I've installed myself though!

then youve answered your own question as to where the fault is

 

[hammers4spanner]

A weeks full of free advice and still scratching your head

 

[kris]

Yes, it has a temperature control and two outlets. One for the shower head and one for the bath. I have two of these in my home...both working well. This is the first time I've installed myself though!

If you read the specifications for the shower it's designed for two outlets to run simultainesly , either a shower fixed head , shower sliding rail or shower jets , it's not designed for a bath just a shower , the flow rates will probably take ages to fill,

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

So I have exactly the same shower valve mixer in my house in two bathrooms and have used for two years without a single problem. I get that I'm totally new to plumbing and will keep trying until I figure it out but even if the product is not designed for this purpose, there must be a way of making it work like the two in my house?

Anyway, I'll stop posting and try some of the good advice that has been posted previously.

 

[Staffy85]

If you read the specifications for the shower it's designed for two outlets to run simultainesly ,

I read that in thinking it gives you the option too run at the same time, pretty sure the top and bottom valves are just 1/4 turn stop valves? , agree like you say poor flow rate for bath filling,

Taryn is there any chance that you have piped up the hot to the cold on the valve?

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

No.

 

[AMW]

You say you have 2 installed already but are they not just supplying showers and if there is a bath are you sure they are not pipe separately which is why you don't have issues with the others??

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Good point. I'll ask my friend who installed the first one - I'm seeing him tomorrow and see if he can shed some light in the issue. Thanks.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Actually, on further reflection I'm not sure how they'd be plumbed in separately as the temperature control works for both shower and bath filling!

 

[Staffy85]

No.

you sound confident, was the hot pipe actually the hot pipe though 😉

 

[AMW]

Maybe a picture of the others and do the others have baths?

 

[kris]

So I have exactly the same shower valve mixer in my house in two bathrooms and have used for two years without a single problem. I get that I'm totally new to plumbing and will keep trying until I figure it out but even if the product is not designed for this purpose, there must be a way of making it work like the two in my house?

Anyway, I'll stop posting and try some of the good advice that has been posted previously.

How does it fill the bath , is there a fixed outlet above the bath or a single tap ?

 

[hammers4spanner]

Just phone an expert!!!

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Honestly, what's the point of having a forum if I'm just going to be told to get an expert in? I discovered I really enjoyed plumbing and as a beginner I thought this would be the place to get some helpful advice.

I have always said on my posts that I'm a beginner and honestly I'm really proud of the plumbing I have achieved (having never done ANY before). I talk to all of my friends about how cool plumbing is and they always laugh. But then, the consistent attitude on this forum of "you're obviously incompetent and need a professional" is really putting me off asking for advice. Perhaps I'll just go back to my local plumbers merchants....where they're nothing but helpful.

Sorry for the rant but as a plumbing enthusiast I'd really rather be encouraged to learn from my mistakes rather than give up at the first sign of a problem. If I had that attitude I would never have installed a kitchen, bathroom, flooring, walls and shelving in my new flat by myself.

If I mess up completely and have to call a professional in, then that's my choice, my expense and my responsibility.

Nothing worth doing was ever easy.

Taryn

 

[hammers4spanner]

Or watch and learn

 

[Dotty]

Don't let it put you off if you want to do it yourself, Taryn, it's just that we've seen similar threads go horribly wrong, and also go fantastically right.

If you're that determined to keep on at it, please do and most of us will help where possible. There will also be some of us holding the opinion you should've got someone in ages ago. That's based on their experiences

 

[joni os]

Stay with us Taryn, after 50 posts there is bound to be some comments, but we all want you to succeed.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Thanks croppie. Some of the help in here has been amazing and I couldn't have plumbed in my kitchen without it.

I think that's what I like about plumbing the most. When it goes wrong you seriously know about and and have to find an immediate solution...but when it goes right it's incredibly empowering. Flooding my kitchen when I hadn't turned off the stopcock was a particular highlight but I got through it and now feel like it's a badge of honour. 🙂

Thanks again.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Thanks joni. Much appreciated.

 

[lame plumber]

got to start somewhere...

 

[kay-jay]

Bit of crap stuck at the faulty outlet. Bouncing around and restricting flow?
Remove and flush pipework

 

[rocketmanbkk]

I've been reading this with interest

It's been running for 10 days now & still not fixed.

It could be time to call someone in & pay for a fix. It's sometimes a lot easier to fathom issues out when you're looking at the system.

You'll also learn the fix when the plumbs there so you'll still learn but it'll cost you a fair price.

 

[oz-plumber]

Gee Rocketman,

As the chinese would say, 'Your going to cop a borrocking'.
( they substitute the 'l' with an 'r' )

 

[rocketmanbkk]

I'm a waiting!! But I think it's the truth!!!!

 

[jtsplumbing]

The OP seems very keen on DIY' and has took a particular interest in plumbing, maybe he could inquire about local evening classes in basic plumbing or other trades, Who knows he may even think about a change in occupation !

 

[oz-plumber]

The OP seems very keen on DIY' and has took a particular interest in plumbing, maybe he could inquire about local evening classes in basic plumbing or other trades, Who knows he may even think about a change in occupation !

I think the 'he' you are referring to is a 'she'.
( Not that that makes any difference - unless the OP takes offence )

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

For everyone following this thread I have an interesting update!

1. Good news is that I fixed the delay in water flow by watching a YouTube video and turning the check valves when I flushed the pipework. A bit of persistence, trial and error - and not giving up! Woo hoo! (At this point I was totally loving plumbing!)

2. My celebration was short lived when the water now suddenly wouldn't go cold. Bugger. I knew immediately what this meant - the pipework was backwards!!!! Honestly I couldn't believe I was soooo stupid. I was so careful about making sure the mixer valve was the right way around but somehow STILL managed to mess it up. Again, you live and learn.

3. So then, the instructions with the mixer valve fortunately had instructions on how to fix this problem by pulling out the thermostatic valve and then adjusting something inside....BUT for the life of me I couldn't get it out and didn't want to damage it.

This is most definitely a job that I need a good professional in for. The last thing I want to do is damage my plumbing around the valve and cause a slow leak which would involve pulling out all my tiling and starting over!!!!

Happy to admit I've made a mistake here but certainly won't do it again. Fingers crossed I can find a competent plumber to put this right.

Thanks to all those offering good advice throughout the journey.

 

[oz-plumber]

" Like sand through the hourglass so are the days of our lives "

 

[Staffy85]

Bugger. I knew immediately what this meant - the pipework was backwards!!!! Honestly I couldn't believe I was soooo stupid. I was so careful about making sure the mixer valve was the right way around but somehow STILL managed to mess it up. Again, you live and learn.

3. So then, the instructions with the mixer valve fortunately had instructions on how to fix this problem by pulling out the thermostatic valve and then adjusting something inside....BUT for the life of me I couldn't get it out and didn't want to damage it.

This is most definitely a job that I need a good professional in for.

Thanks to all those offering good advice throughout the journey.

glad you found it, looking at the pics of the shower it looks symmetrical so wouldn't be hard at all to fit it upside down, also helps in the ripping out stage that what ever your ripping out to run hot water through so you know 100% which the hot pipe is as the pipe will be physically hot, unless you can trace pipes back easily.. to undo the actual shower valve may take some force and the force required wont be any less for a plumber im afraid, it might be worth your while taking tiles off and re piping it ,

 

[gassafe]

Your lucky the shower has the option to reverse the hot & cold, many don't!

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Hi again!

After a visit from my friend, he confirmed that pulling out the thermostatic valve was not going to be an easy task. He suggested I switch the hot and cold further down the pipes near the end of the bath where the isolator valves are. Genius!

Very happy to report that I managed to fix this. After all it was my mistake in the first place! I expected everything to work after this, but sadly no hot water came out! 🙁

When I take out the filters and send water through there's no problem with the hot and cold side, but as soon as I put the filters back in, hot water doesn't come through the shower. The thermostatic valve is stopping the hot from coming through for some reason.

I changed the temperature on the combi boiler thinking that might help, but no success.

I have a real plumber coming to look at it tomorrow but for those of you following this thread you may have realised that I REALLY REALLY wanted to solve this myself. Any final suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again.

Taryn

 

[Dotty]

It's a pressure problem you have there.

 

[Ric2013]

I can't help, but my first hunch would have been that something somewhere was deciding the shower was getting too hot and shutting it down, as others have stated.

I'd like to know how this saga ends though, so please keep us posted.

For what it's worth, from the little I've seen of your pipework, even though you've put PTFE on your compression _threads_ (no need - the seal takes place at the 'olive' (compression ring)), you've got two important things right: 1. Your pipes come into the valve nice and square - no spaghetti plumbing and coming into joints under stress. 2. You've bothered to screw the valve to the wall. The two combined suggest you may have bothered to clip your pipework. Nothing against DIYers - how do you think I started out?

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

If it's a pressure problem, would it shoot out from the filter valve when I open that? It seems really powerful then.

Anyway, it does seem that the thermostatic valve is misbehaving for some reason. I really look forward to seeing how this pans out myself!

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Thanks for the feedback Ric, it's really appreciated. I did clip them to the wall and always try to be as conscientious as I can - I'm totally paranoid about leaks which I this is compulsory for a DIYer. (I did the PTFE tape fittings before I read all about that on the forum.)

I have even considered some night classes in the future...I'd like to be much better at plumbing because I really enjoy it.

 

[SimonG]

Do you work for them????? 🙂

 

[SimonG]

Aye, righty o.

 

[Taryn Hauritz]

Update - had a professional in who confirmed there was nothing wrong with my plumbing but that it's a faulty cartridge. Can't bare to wait the five working days for it to be delivered 🙁

 

[rpm]

Update - had a professional in who confirmed there was nothing wrong with my plumbing but that it's a faulty cartridge. Can't bare to wait the five working days for it to be delivered 🙁

Reckon you deserve the right to wear the "New Part Was Faulty" T-shirt Taryn.

 

[joni os]

Update - had a professional in who confirmed there was nothing wrong with my plumbing but that it's a faulty cartridge. Can't bare to wait the five working days for it to be delivered 🙁

If he's right, marry him.