New OLD House- Help/advice please

[christmasfairy]

Hi, hope this is the right place to ask.........

background.....
We have recently moved into a 1700century house, it has a mains gas boiler (approx 15 years old) it has 2 hot water tanks and header tanks (i am assuming these would be called low pressure?) The pipework in the loft leaked a few weeks after we moved in and the plumber we called said the pipework was in need of replacement- it clearly was, the pipe looked like it had been crushed, it was very thin copper compared to what he showed us is used now.

Anyway- we had planned to replace the ensuite bathroom and a small shower room once we moved in, i didnt expect to need to replace pipework BUT i am happy to do so to hopefully make leaks less likely, we are going to live here for a long long time. The water leak we had was an expansion tank for the heating system we think as the pipe went into a tank- the water was brown and seperate from the cold water tank also in the loft.

My question is- the plumber suggested a high pressure tank system placed in the loft in order to remove the TWO sets of water tanks we have now and therefore remove the cupboards from the upstairs of the house and place ONE system in the loft. If we use the high pressure system and replace pipework from the boiler to the tank and from the tank to the bathrooms would this be a good solution? What are the pitfalls/disadvantages of a high pressure system?
Is there anything else we could do? I figure having two systems is more likely to cause me problems/leaks that one system BUT in a igh pressure system am i right in thinking a leak would be MUCH bigger and worse becasue the water is under pressure?

If we DO go for the high pressure system what would be a good make to go for?

Would it be sensible (having said about weak pipework) to replace all pipework going to the radiators?

Sorry for rambling, i hope my questions are not too dim

Thank you

 

[Ermintrude]

So a pressurised heating system will be more efficient, less prone to sludge and much much more user friendly - rapid heating and hotter rads.

Unvented hot water system. (Pressurised)
Phenomenal performance every shower will be "5 star hotel standard" fantastic hot water and lots of it. Very low losses unlike conventional system.

But you will need pipework and decent mains pressure and flow

 

[christmasfairy]

ok, that sounds really good, are there any other considerations? It's going to run three showers eventually. It's a long house so the furthest bathroom with be a fair way from the tanks.

I i like the sound of 5 star hotel showers. At the moment the only shower we currently have is out of action because the grout was leaking in the tiles and I am sick of a bath every night.

Are the unvented systems reliable over a long period of time? Am I going to manage the next 20 years with no dramas?

 

[Chalked]

If you have good water flow and pressure. There isn't a downside.

personally I like santon premier plus. But as long as it's stainless they are mostly the same.
IMHO i don't like megaflo with a bubble top. ( unreliable)

 

[Destroyer2813]

Wouldn't be so.sure about putting all that weight onto those old joists though

 

[christmasfairy]

If you have good water flow and pressure. There isn't a downside.

personally I like santon premier plus. But as long as it's stainless they are mostly the same.
IMHO i don't like megaflo with a bubble top. ( unreliable)

Yes we we have good water pressure, the plumber measured it while he was here.

Originally we were only going to replace the hot water system. I'm going to just go ahead and ask all my questions here because I won't be able to hear the laughing BUT


what are the components of the heating and hot water system??? if we go ahead and have a new unvented hot water system, do we need a seperate tank for the heating then?

Is my old boiler going to be able to cope with that or should we be looking to replace it?

what would be the "dream" set up??

(what a divot, runs for cover)

 

[christmasfairy]

Plumber said he would make some re enforcements. How much weight are we talking? Are there any other options.? It's timber framed the house and there are some big bum beams up there.

Does it it have to be an over head system? Can the tanks go downstairs?

 

[christmasfairy]

Santon looks good! Dare I say it's not as expensive as I thought.

 

[Ermintrude]

Get a center store it's £700 for a £1800 tank. Or go all out....
ACV sl coupled to 60kw of twin logics on a low loss

 

[andyplumber2009]

Large investment so:
- Weight, you currently have 2 water tanks, ops with more experience than me could advise but i would not believe 1 pressurised tank will weigh more than 2 tanks
- What do you need? i.e if it is 1 bathroom then why go for a "hotel" system. If it is a 6 bed 5 bathroom then .....
- Get the plumber to quote specifiying the make and model of system recommended & price for job
- Get 2nd plumber to "as above"
- Get 3rd plumber
- Get plumbers to make sure that your current showers & bath taps etc will take the pressure of whatever system they install.
Take 3 quotes, do the forum & google searches and appropriate qualification checks
Go with best option for you, not just best price
You need to be qualified for unvented, make sure the plumber is qualified. Ask for help on here if you need

 

[Gray0689]

Think about a hot water secondary return if it's a long draw off

And I'll second the ACV

 

[christmasfairy]

Get a center store it's £700 for a £1800 tank. Or go all out....
ACV sl coupled to 60kw of twin logics on a low loss

What is an ACV? is this the brand? if I repeat this line to my plumber will he know what im talking about?

Are there different grades of copper pipe?

Andy- its got 7 bedrooms, ensuite, main bathroom and a shower room,
Currently the en suite has bath, sink, loo, the hot water tank is in the room in a cupboard, id like this moved to the loft to make the room bigger and add a shower and double sink.

shower room standard, shower, loo, sink

main bathroom same as en suite, has a hot water tank and header tank built into the actual room in a cupboard, it takes up so much space, therefore the "want/need" fr this to all go to one system and do away with second tanks, meaning i can then have a seperate shower and double sink in the main bathroom too.

The current bathroom suites are old and fairly ropey, functional but not nicely done. My plan is to get the house right from the inside first, so whilst id love a new bathroom suite all finished i think id be better off replacing the very old and leaky pipework and getting a good tank system in place before ripping the bathrooms out themselves, we simply cannot afford to do everything at once and my motto is to do things once and do them right.

If we install the unvented system and complete new pipework are we likely to blow out all the taps?
Plumber said he would pressurise the system and make sure the old sanitary wear can handle it!?

I hope my questions arent too ridiculous, I must say you are all very helpful, Thank you!! We lived in a new build house before this and never had to get anyone to come and do anything, I find it hard to trust other people and therefore like to try and learn about things at least a little bit before hand. Im not sure how many other 30 year old girls you get lurking on the forums who arent plumbers, but ive already learnt you never ever refill a gas bottle lol

 

[Gray0689]

Acv is the rolls Royce of cylinders
A lot of your questions an really only be answered by someone that is looking at the job
If you post your area we can maybe point you in right direction of a good plumber

 

[Ermintrude]

ACV as said is the dado. Cylinder comes in yellow y fronts hairy chest smoking a cigar with a lot of 70's bling

 

[christmasfairy]

ACV as said is the dado. Cylinder comes in yellow y fronts hairy chest smoking a cigar with a lot of 70's bling

Lol ermintrude!

 

[christmasfairy]

Acv is the rolls Royce of cylinders
A lot of your questions an really only be answered by someone that is looking at the job
If you post your area we can maybe point you in right direction of a good plumber

Ok, sorry, yes I will speak to plumber, he is good and came highly recommended but I'm weighing my different options to ensure I don't get a biased system, if you see what I mean.

 

[christmasfairy]

Chaps........... more help please. I'm in North Essex (halstead/braintree area) I need some recommendations please.

Had our quote back from the plumber, it was a LOT more than I expected......and it wasnt including the ACV stuff!

:bat:

 

[christmasfairy]

Hi all, im back again,

I need a recommendation of a plumber, the quote has come in and is much much more than i though it would be. ( i didnt expect i to be cheap, its not an easy job) i am in North Essex- halstead/braintree area if any of you know of anybody near here.

His quote didnt include the ACV stuff either, we could have them but he quoted for a worcester boiler and geh tanks.

 

[SimonG]

Thats why you need at least three estimates/quotes. You also want to go see previous work and speak to previous customers.

Without seeing the job its difficult to say whats expensive or cheap, thats why you need more than one price.

 

[Gray0689]

Hi all, im back again,

I need a recommendation of a plumber, the quote has come in and is much much more than i though it would be. ( i didnt expect i to be cheap, its not an easy job) i am in North Essex- halstead/braintree area if any of you know of anybody near here.

His quote didnt include the ACV stuff either, we could have them but he quoted for a worcester boiler and geh tanks.

What would you like your budget to be

 

[christmasfairy]

What would you like your budget to be

:tounge_smile::tounge_smile: What I'd LIKE my budget to be and what my budget is are too different things. I'd don't like budgets, they invariably leave you disappointed and feeling poor. We generally work out the pros and cons of each thing and work out how best to get enough money saved until we can afford what we feel is the best use of the money. That said I am not a millionaire and I want to SEE something for laying out all that hard earned cash and I wasn't going to see any sanitary ware for the price he quoted. We have never had to replace a boiler or have any plumbing work done whatsoever before so it's hard to judge what is a good price.

We have two more people coming for quotes so I will keep you updated with what happens. It's also scary some of the horror stories of people who've had work done and it's turned into a nightmare on this forum. I've taken the advice. Quotes, research, references.

 

[Gray0689]

The best bit of advice I can give you is
You can have the best heating system in the world
But if you can't keep the heat in its useless

Look at insulation as well as the heating
There is some excellent plumbers on here if you can get one that is in your area you will be landed

Good luck

 

[Ermintrude]

Not always true but low quality expensive plumbers fit cheap tosh! Reasonable tip top ones fit the best, we only use copper , we price two cylinders the best and then a heatrea. Pumps and valves. If it looks good it is. If it looks a mess you've been ripped. ACV arnt pretty but omg can they cook. 210l in a SL will go 25% further than 210 normal store. Also they recover a lot faster. So if your planning on growing a family get one. If u can afford it fit an SLME so that in future u can add solar thermal.

 

[Gray0689]

I agree with everything bar the copper
I'm a huge fan of heating on manifolds to rads either plastic or mlcp actuators on manifold and stats in every room
Total control

 

[Ermintrude]

I've got manifolds but all honewell 2 ports and Myson smart stat programmers

 

[Gray0689]

I've got manifolds but all honewell 2 ports and Myson smart stat programmers

Bit over engineered lol

 

[christmasfairy]

Bit over engineered lol

I like over engineered lol

You two speak my language. It doesn't have to be pretty but it has to work, well, for a long time and be efficient!

The he quote we had was for geh tanks, Worcester boiler- I know what you're going to say ermintrude.

Acv are coming to see us to quote on Friday.

 

[Gray0689]

Do you know who from acv?

 

[Gray0689]

Nooo it has to be pretty in a plumbers eyes lol

 

[Dotty]

Do you know who from acv?

I've been talking to a lovely young lady from ACV. With any luck they'll be in board as a sponsor before long.....

 

[Gray0689]

Craig Marshall from ACV is a good fellow too

 

[christmasfairy]

Craig Marshall from ACV is a good fellow too

I've pm you

 

[Ermintrude]

Shaun helme is a fairly decent bloke!

 

[christmasfairy]

Shaun helme is a fairly decent bloke!

I've pm you as well ermintrude