Newly fitted toilet keeps blocking

[Armitage Shanker]

Hi to all. I have just signed in because of a plumbing problem. I am a DIYer and have no plumbing qualifications but I do have common sense and follow instructions.
I have recently replaced a close coupled toilet which worked fine with a much more modern looking one which seems to clog up if anyone does a number two. The poop always disappears but then the toilet takes a long while for the water to drain when flushed so it is a partial blockage.
When I fitted the pan the spigot did not quite reach the plastic waste outlet which is the one that looks like a periscope. My local plumber sold me a small extension so I could connect the spigot to the plastic waste. All seems to work except it keeps blocking.
1. I am wondering if the poo is not quite passing through the extra pipe or getting caught on the joints?
2.Should I go for a flexible connector?
OR
3.I have found that Macalpine do a connector that is slightly longer at the top which might fit my toilet without the need for the extra joint.
4.None of the above?
By the way the flush mechanism is properly set up (followed instructions)
and the flush appears to be nice and strong.

Any help gratefully accepted.

 

[Burger]

Any photos of install, can’t seem to make much sense from what you’re saying.

Also have you checked soil pipe/manhole for a blockage?
Could be a dislodged pan connector joint.
Is the connection uphill?
Too much toilet roll?

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Thanks for reply. The blockages always seem to be in the pipework just beyond the bend I clear them using one of those bendy wire drain clearers though sometimes a toilet plunger will work. As I say the old toilet flushed really well so I am confident the problem is with something I have done rather than further downstream. I will try to get you a pic though space is limited. I will try to be clearer in my description which might be more help than a photo.
When I fitted the toilet the outlet on the toilet was too short to connect to the existing waste pipe so I bought a straight extension made by McAlpine. It all connected fine but I am wondering if this extra bit is causing the blockages? The connection is not uphill it goes out into the periscope style connector then straight down. I will try to post picture.

 

[Burger]

Ok, so I think the periscope connection is an offset. If all is good, I would suggest a dislodged rubber in pan connector

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Here is a picture. It is the best I can do. You can see the floor so that will help with orientation. The joint seems neat and tidy and there are no leaks. Do you think I could solve the problem either by purchasing a flexible pan connector which would get rid of extra joint OR by purchasing a pan connector with a slightly longer "head" which would also get rid of extra joint.

View attachment 20190720_145400.jpg

View attachment 20190720_145400.jpg

 

[snowhead]

What happens if you put a bucket of water down into the pan, as fast as you can get it in?

 

[Armitage Shanker]

The water whooshes down but part of it remains and drains more slowly. Some of the blockages are worse than others. At its very worst the water level comes within 6 inches of the top but normally it is lower than that. If I could just clear the blockages with a bucket of water it would be a lot less annoying but as it is I am on my knees with either a toilet plunger or bendy drain clearing wire.

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Looking at the picture, the second of the two circles doesn't seem to be properly aligned as though the joint isn't properly seated. I wonder if that could be part of the problem? At any rate I have no choice but to disconnect everything. I think I will go for a flexible connector because that will reduce the number of joints and I know it will fit. I gather some people are less keen on these types of fittings.

 

[Riley]

Avoid flexis if poss

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Ok. Please can you explain why as I genuinely don't know about this.

 

[Rob Foster]

Thanks for reply. The blockages always seem to be in the pipework just beyond the bend I clear them using one of those bendy wire drain clearers though sometimes a toilet plunger will work. As I say the old toilet flushed really well so I am confident the problem is with something I have done rather than further downstream. I will try to get you a pic though space is limited. I will try to be clearer in my description which might be more help than a photo.
When I fitted the toilet the outlet on the toilet was too short to connect to the existing waste pipe so I bought a straight extension made by McAlpine. It all connected fine but I am wondering if this extra bit is causing the blockages? The connection is not uphill it goes out into the periscope style connector then straight down. I will try to post picture.

Look just post a general pic of your bog pan, and one with the seat up...some 'designer pans' are ...poo. at getting stuff away. If it worked before we most probably will be able to navigate you to a solution
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

Ok. Please can you explain why as I genuinely don't know about this.

Flexis are thin, often a diy fit without the correct fall throughout their length and are very thin and light gets in...so ratty and his mates come up your drain to pay you a visit at night...see light and eat their way into you gaff...this does not phase big boys I just shoot them ...air pistol is sufficient or the dog but females get spooked
cannot think why
thats why flexies are not the best solution but I have been known to use them in tight situations...centralheatking needs must and the devil drives

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Ok doesn't sound like a good idea then.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Does it feed into a manhole

If yes open the closest and re try your test

/ check there isn’t a blockage further down the line

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Look just post a general pic of your bog pan, and one with the seat up...some 'designer pans' are ...poo. at getting stuff away. If it worked before we most probably will be able to navigate you to a solution
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Ok here is pic. Nice looking toilet and great no1s.

 

[Rob Foster]

Ok doesn't sound like a good idea then.

Too be honest your piccys come up on my I pad as a big splodge
...just do a general shot or two please..then we all can see more
back later just wacking in a downstairs bog in my latest place

 

[Rob Foster]

so wees go away and crap etc sticks...and a bucket of water does not hang around ?
back later chking

 

[Armitage Shanker]

A bucket of water or three does not clear the blockage, I have to resort to a toilet plunger or sometimes a drain cleaning wire. I think most of the time they are partial blockages because after the flush or bucket of water there is the little rumbling sound that a bloke on You Tube said was a sign of a partial blockage. The water does go away but more slowly than it should. If someone does a number 2 when a partial blockage is uncleared then a more serious blockage happens with water going down very very slowly. Luckily we have another toilet so everyone now does number 2s in upstairs loo only. A bit annoying to a have a lovely toilet that doesn't do the job it was meant to do.

 

[rpm]

Pretty sure you will find one to suit without adding anything else.
90° Bend Adjustable Length Rigid WC Connector

90° Bend Adjustable Length Extended Inlet Rigid WC Connector

 

[Rob Foster]

A bucket of water or three does not clear the blockage, I have to resort to a toilet plunger or sometimes a drain cleaning wire. I think most of the time they are partial blockages because after the flush or bucket of water there is the little rumbling sound that a bloke on You Tube said was a sign of a partial blockage. The water does go away but more slowly than it should. If someone does a number 2 when a partial blockage is uncleared then a more serious blockage happens with water going down very very slowly. Luckily we have another toilet so everyone now does number 2s in upstairs loo only. A bit annoying to a have a lovely toilet that doesn't do the job it was meant to do.

Ok, get a traditional mop, not the blue silly things, but the string ones wet the mop head, flush the bog, and put the mop head into the pan and pump it up and down as deep as it will go ..keep adding water, the hydraulic traction you will get is massive almost as good as a machine. make sure the mop head is well fixed..it usually works but my mrs wont use her mops after they have been out with me...cant think why
good luck ..centralheatking

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Ok, get a traditional mop, not the blue silly things, but the string ones wet the mop head, flush the bog, and put the mop head into the pan and pump it up and down as deep as it will go ..keep adding water, the hydraulic traction you will get is massive almost as good as a machine. make sure the mop head is well fixed..it usually works but my mrs wont use her mops after they have been out with me...cant think why
good luck ..centralheatking

Of course there are many ways to unblock the loo but the issue is, I shouldn't have to do this every flamin' time someone does a number 2.
My missus seems to be blaming me for all this though of course its always me with the rubber gloves, plunger, drain wire, washing up liquid, hot water, bleach etc. I am blumin sick of it. So I guess removing toilet and starting again with the waste pipe work is the only solution.

 

[Rob Foster]

Of course there are many ways to unblock the loo but the issue is, I shouldn't have to do this every flamin' time someone does a number 2.
My missus seems to be blaming me for all this though of course its always me with the rubber gloves, plunger, drain wire, washing up liquid, hot water, bleach etc. I am blumin sick of it. So I guess removing toilet and starting again with the waste pipe work is the only solution.

if you do as I say it might solve your problem altogether chking
of course your mrs blames you, durr thats what they do, man up and solve it ...or retrain your mrs in some other way..apprentice plumber ?

 

[Burger]

You lost anything down it,like a rim block? Anything else on the same run backing up?

 

[Armitage Shanker]

No nothing lost down it. Not sure what you mean by "the same run" but no other sinks, toilets, baths or showers in the house get blocked. I am starting to think it is the waste pipe work that is causing the problem.

 

[Burger]

No nothing lost down it. Not sure what you mean by "the same run" but no other sinks, toilets, baths or showers in the house get blocked. I am starting to think it is the waste pipe work that is causing the problem.

Same run, is other outlets connected to the same soil pipe/drain. Eg wash basin, etc. From the sounds of it then yes it could just be the soil pipe it’s connected to. I recommend removing the toilet suite and look down the pipe before making any decisions.

 

[JCplumb]

Of course there are many ways to unblock the loo but the issue is, I shouldn't have to do this every flamin' time someone does a number 2.
My missus seems to be blaming me for all this though of course its always me with the rubber gloves, plunger, drain wire, washing up liquid, hot water, bleach etc. I am blumin sick of it. So I guess removing toilet and starting again with the waste pipe work is the only solution.

Yes there are many ways to unblock a toilet, but Rob was suggesting this method because it isn't just poking at the blockage, you get a good blast using a mop (I tie a carrier bag round the mop head to help the seal).
When you're poking it with a wire you're probably making a small hole, the springiness of the wire will mean it will only hit a small part of the pipe after a bend no matter what you do with it.
Pouring water and or chemicals down is only using gravity to try and clear it.
Try the mop trick, it has got a lot of plumbers out of the poo a lot of times.

 

[Best]

If nothing else works, remove the toilet and investigate your work

 

[David Banfield]

Too be honest your piccys come up on my I pad as a big splodge
...just do a general shot or two please..then we all can see more
back later just wacking in a downstairs bog in my latest place

 

[Ben-gee]

This method requires more skill but if you don’t have a string mop this is free.

Stand on a chair and quickly pour an entire bucket of water from ceiling height.

Stop mucking about with a wire. As JC says above, you are at best poking a small hole in blockage - the bucket or mop methods provide a means of moving the whole blockage along.

Lift the nearest manhole and get someone to watch, keep going with whichever method you choose until they report that they have seen said blockage go sailing by.

As you say you shouldn’t have to do this daily - you won’t once you have done it correctly eg as above.

 

[David Banfield]

I’ve had this problem before. Found it to be where the pan connector fits into the bent pan connector. If you remove these fittings you’ll see the problem. You’ll need to cut off a bit of the pan connector so when inserted into the bent pan connector (periscope) it doesn’t insert so far as to reduce the bore of the pipe. Hope this helps

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Many thanks to all who have tried to help. Dave Banfield's idea seems very plausible. I have ordered a new waste connector which is slightly longer at the top (where it joins to the toilet outlet) so hopefully the toilet will plug straight into it without the need for the extra joint which I have at the moment which seems to be causing the problem.

 

[Armitage Shanker]

This method requires more skill but if you don’t have a string mop this is free.

Stand on a chair and quickly pour an entire bucket of water from ceiling height.

Stop mucking about with a wire. As JC says above, you are at best poking a small hole in blockage - the bucket or mop methods provide a means of moving the whole blockage along.

Lift the nearest manhole and get someone to watch, keep going with whichever method you choose until they report that they have seen said blockage go sailing by.

As you say you shouldn’t have to do this daily - you won’t once you have done it correctly eg as above.

Thanks for suggestion, Ben. When using whatever method the blockage eventually gets completely cleared and the toilet drains perfectly with liquid and paper flushing away nicely so all is great until someone does a number two then the toilet becomes partly blocked yet again. It will flush and the water goes away but slower than it should. I think there is a problem in the way the pan connects to the waste so I am going to have to dismantle it and see what is what. I will post with what I find.

 

[Ben-gee]

Ah ok I didn’t realise you got fully correct function each time.

In that case sounds like a connection problem, I had this once and it turned out that the rubber seal from inside the pan connector had come partially away from its correct position, such that half of it was inside the 4” pipe.

The paper then snagged on this and caused a blockage, amazingly it didn’t leak otherwise I would have found it sooner.

As you say next stage is dismantle and inspect.....

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Ah ok I didn’t realise you got fully correct function each time.

In that case sounds like a connection problem, I had this once and it turned out that the rubber seal from inside the pan connector had come partially away from its correct position, such that half of it was inside the 4” pipe.

The paper then snagged on this and caused a blockage, amazingly it didn’t leak otherwise I would have found it sooner.

As you say next stage is dismantle and inspect...

Cheers Ben. No one is using the loo except for wees and tomorrow I will take it to bits and report back. Really appreciate the support from everyone.🙂

 

[Steve weightman]

Can't beat a bog in a box with a deep pan hole for getting no2 away. Some modern toilets are only designed for small turds.

 

[Ben-gee]

Ah the good old days where every bog had a syphon and any seat fit any pan.

 

[Rob Foster]

Can't beat a bog in a box with a deep pan hole for getting no2 away. Some modern toilets are only designed for small turds.

Just bought two from homebase, £45.00 each and I know they will flush away because I have 6 others. Saves cleaning etc after every dump as they flush down clean every time alot of designer stuff is crap. no floaters left with these bog in a box bog pans. We used to get thro loads of asda bog brushes at the holiday lets then I re fitted
happy...CLEAN...days
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

2 what

read my post...bog in a box....you can scroll up to catch up on a thread. chking

 

[Ben-gee]

Excellent rob, try telling the tw*ts in the swanky showroom as they attempt to sucker some mug into an £800 bog.

In all honesty the £45 is better.

 

[Rob Foster]

Excellent rob, try telling the tw*ts in the swanky showroom as they attempt to sucker some mug into an £800 bog.

In all honesty the £45 is better.

And my comments are true and based on my experience over the years. chking

 

[WC1]

Armitage, you may be aware but if not, - when reassembling make sure you run a bead of fairy liquid round any rubber connecting boot otherwise they can get pushed out of place and cause a problem.

 

[Rob Foster]

Armitage, you may be aware but if not, - when reassembling make sure you run a bead of fairy liquid round any rubber connecting boot otherwise they can get pushed out of place and cause a problem.

I just gob on it and rub it around ...Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

I just gob on it and rub it around ...Rob Foster aka centralheatking

in fact just done that before sunday lunch

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Armitage, you may be aware but if not, - when reassembling make sure you run a bead of fairy liquid round any rubber connecting boot otherwise they can get pushed out of place and cause a problem.

Hi thanks for the heads up on that.🙂 Being a stickler for following instructions I just did what it said in the instruction leaflet that came with the McAlpine joint. It said use water to wet the rubber, that's what I did and the joint seemed to assemble ok but maybe washing up liquid might have saved all this hassle, who knows.

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Excellent rob, try telling the tw*ts in the swanky showroom as they attempt to sucker some mug into an £800 bog.

In all honesty the £45 is better.

Yes, its a bit like designer clothes isn't it? You can buy a perfectly decent tee shirt for not a lot of money or pay £50 or more for a designer label. The toilet I got was chosen by the missus because she liked the look of it and was nowhere near £800. I had a narrow escape as it was, cos originally she wanted a fully shrouded one. Fleck knows how I would have fitted that given the space restrictions.

 

[rpm]

Swan neck connector

 

[David Banfield]

Armitage, go easy on the lube when connecting the pan connector to the pan. You need a bit of friction there to keep it from coming off when water hits the back of it. Stick with water if you can but, as mentioned, make sure you don’t pop the seal out.

 

[Steve weightman]

Quite often get asked to swap a newley installed toilet for a different one that flushes better trouble is they don't give flow figures for pans so getting one is tricky tend to have a look at the pan to see how big the pan catchment areas like before buying

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Swan neck connector

I am only a DIYer but even I have come to the conclusion that things are rarely that simple.🙂

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Quite often get asked to swap a newley installed toilet for a different one that flushes better trouble is they don't give flow figures for pans so getting one is tricky tend to have a look at the pan to see how big the pan catchment areas like before buying

What is "the pan catchment area"? Is it the hole where the poop and pee disappears into or is it the total surface area of the pan itself?

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Armitage, go easy on the lube when connecting the pan connector to the pan. You need a bit of friction there to keep it from coming off when water hits the back of it. Stick with water if you can but, as mentioned, make sure you don’t pop the seal out.

Cheers, Dave, will do.

 

[Steve weightman]

What is "the pan catchment area"? Is it the hole where the poop and pee disappears into or is it the total surface area of the pan itself?

I think made that up about the catchment area but I know what you mean the hole where the poop sits in I've had many where customers are on laxatives so quite a quantity of poop that won't go down

 

[WC1]

Do you know what make of pan it is?

 

[Steve weightman]

Never had problems with these from screwfix with fluidmaster internals not the prettiest but works well

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Do you know what make of pan it is?

Sorry I don't know that. We bought it from a local supplier not a big retailer. The cistern has a red stamp on the inside with what looks like "IMEX".

 

[Ben-gee]

Personally I NEVER put lube on the pan connector/spigot connection- as mentioned above it can ‘pop’ off (obviously won’t if physically restrained).

I do however usually lube the inside of the 4”, sachet of Vaseline with multikwik’s - which are my go to favourites.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I only ever use water. Seems to work for me.

 

[Stigster]

Flexis are thin, often a diy fit without the correct fall throughout their length and are very thin and light gets in...so ratty and his mates come up your drain to pay you a visit at night...see light and eat their way into you gaff...this does not phase big boys I just shoot them ...air pistol is sufficient or the dog but females get spooked
cannot think why
thats why flexies are not the best solution but I have been known to use them in tight situations...centralheatking needs must and the devil drives

Or douse them in unleaded and throw in a match maybe? Sorry Rob, I couldn't resist.

 

[Rob Foster]

Quite often get asked to swap a newley installed toilet for a different one that flushes better trouble is they don't give flow figures for pans so getting one is tricky tend to have a look at the pan to see how big the pan catchment areas like before buying

Its the narrow tight pan holes that work best not the ones with a wide run off area that just collect the poo in my opinion and experience of 60 years doing dumps and owning quite a few houses etc. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

Or douse them in unleaded and throw in a match maybe? Sorry Rob, I couldn't resist.

we did that once at uni we knew that James always had a *** whilst doing his sit down in the morning...so the bathroom stank, so we primed it with just enough petrol..he always posted his *** into the pan before he stood up
...BANG ....he never did it again
he he ....centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

I have never found the need for lube on any male/female connections that I have undertaken
over the years....Centralheatking

 

[Best]

I have never found the need for lube on any male/female connections that I have undertaken
over the years....Centralheatking

....maybe that is because all your female connections were very slack?


😉

 

[WC1]

Perhaps the male part was quite small...

 

[Best]

Perhaps the male part was quite small...

Rob, - This is a rare example of when we definitely do not want photos.
🙂

 

[Armitage Shanker]

OK so I fitted the replacement waste. Couldn't see anything obviously faulty with the old waste. Anyway, cautious thumbs up for now. A number two done and successfully flushed. Even when nothing in the toilet the water now just seems to disappear much more quickly when flushed. Anyway, we shall see what happens over time. Thanks to all who have tried to help.😀

 

[Warmiger]

Hopefully fingers crossed it is the pan connector. I have seen this issue a few times by someone not setting the correct water level in the cistern. Or the other one the customer doesn’t realise it’s a duel flush and flushing with reduced water with number 2’s.
Just thought I would mention it if there is still an issue.
Years ago we use to use the Silicone grease for any 4” pipe work or toilet fittings.
As I haven’t done site work for a lot of years and no longer have it in my bag I have since used a small amount of jet blue. It seems to work well. I even do the same with flush cones.

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Hopefully fingers crossed it is the pan connector. I have seen this issue a few times by someone not setting the correct water level in the cistern. Or the other one the customer doesn’t realise it’s a duel flush and flushing with reduced water with number 2’s.
Just thought I would mention it if there is still an issue.
Years ago we use to use the Silicone grease for any 4” pipe work or toilet fittings.
As I haven’t done site work for a lot of years and no longer have it in my bag I have since used a small amount of jet blue. It seems to work well. I even do the same with flush cones.

Thanks for your interest. The toilet now flushes normally so it is obvious the waste connection was the problem. As I said much earlier in the thread when I first fitted the toilet the waste output from the toilet didn't quite reach the plastic waste input so I used a small extension. It appears this was just too much for the flush to deal with so when I replaced that waste setup with a single fitting everything was fine.

 

[Michael1960]

Hi to all. I have just signed in because of a plumbing problem. I am a DIYer and have no plumbing qualifications but I do have common sense and follow instructions.
I have recently replaced a close coupled toilet which worked fine with a much more modern looking one which seems to clog up if anyone does a number two. The poop always disappears but then the toilet takes a long while for the water to drain when flushed so it is a partial blockage.
When I fitted the pan the spigot did not quite reach the plastic waste outlet which is the one that looks like a periscope. My local plumber sold me a small extension so I could connect the spigot to the plastic waste. All seems to work except it keeps blocking.
1. I am wondering if the poo is not quite passing through the extra pipe or getting caught on the joints?
2.Should I go for a flexible connector?
OR
3.I have found that Macalpine do a connector that is slightly longer at the top which might fit my toilet without the need for the extra joint.
4.None of the above?
By the way the flush mechanism is properly set up (followed instructions)
and the flush appears to be nice

 

[bdsdrainage]

Clogging is the number one cause of toilets flooding in many homes. This is a situation that occurs when the toilet is filled up with the wrong items. Your toilet is designed in a way that it can only accommodate and flush waste and toilet paper. Any other unwanted item may easily clog your toilet drainage system.

Dumping nappies, sanitary products, solid items, and paper towels can easily clog your toilet system leading to water overflow. And even before you start claiming that your toilet overflowing for no reason, clogging can occur in many forms. They include;

• Clogged toilet bowl – Most of the problems in toilets are as a result of a clog in the toilet bowl. Don’t flush down wrong things that may easily clog the toilet bowl and lead to unnecessary problems.
• Clogged toilet trap – Most toilets have a toilet trap that helps prevent sewer fumes from going into other rooms and cause terrible smells. It is easy for this trap to get clogged if the wrong products are passed through it.
• Clogged drain pipes – Flushed water flows into the drain pipes then towards the sewers that have multiple bends that can easily be clogged by wrong items. With time, the water will be flushing slowing and eventually, the issue will become a severe drainage problem.
• Clogged sanitary sewer – Flushed water from the toilet also drains into the lateral sanitary sewer line that is connected to the main local sewer system. Wrongly drained items usually clog the lateral sanitary system leading to toilet floods or overflow.

There are many ways to unblock a drain:

1. Use Boiling Water
2. Use A Hosepipe Or A Hanger
3. Use Of Coca Cola
4. Wet And Dry Vacuum
5. Use Vinegar and Baking Soda