OK for waste to run uphill a short distance?

[oz-plumber]

I'm making a call here.

The OP has done the work himself.

Claims not to have much knowledge on plumbing - but seems to have all the right answers. - Even cocky ones.

Claims the plumber who did the work said - 'Please trust me'
Then goes on to ask whether or not to sack the plumber and claims a tie between the outcome of 2 posts.

Then states that the drain can be repaired by removing plaster ceiling on the floor below - that makes economic sense.
15 minutes to repair at this stage or 25+ hours of work to access, replace and make good ceiling below.

I doubt any plumber would fit a tee like that and run a drain from a basin with reverse fall - for the sake of saving the cost of 1 bend.

This thread has had hairs on it since the 1st post.

Anyone agree?

 

[Stigster]

Yes, that helps a lot - thanks!

Such a simple, elegant solution and one which easily allows the fall on the basin waste to be independent of the fall on the shower waste. (Now I've seen the suggested fix, I'm amazed why he didn't simply do this in the first place?!). However, this will only work if the pipe going across the joists doesn't start so high up as to rule out getting enough fall from the basin... if it does, then I'm not sure what we'll do.

So, in this set-up, would it be right to use the same tee that he already used (i.e. one that would direct the flow from the shower down to the right)?

Sorry I didn't get back sooner but Shaun's drawing shows where the extra 6 (ish) inches of pipe and the elbow will go as I'm sure you've worked out now.

 

[trf0412]

I'm making a call here.

The OP has done the work himself.

Claims not to have much knowledge on plumbing - but seems to have all the right answers. - Even cocky ones.

Claims the plumber who did the work said - 'Please trust me'
Then goes on to ask whether or not to sack the plumber and claims a tie between the outcome of 2 posts.

Then states that the drain can be repaired by removing plaster ceiling on the floor below - that makes economic sense.
15 minutes to repair at this stage or 25+ hours of work to access, replace and make good ceiling below.

I doubt any plumber would fit a tee like that and run a drain from a basin with reverse fall - for the sake of saving the cost of 1 bend.

This thread has had hairs on it since the 1st post.

Anyone agree?

Hmm... very interesting accusation! I can assure you I did not do the work and everything I've said is true including what the plumber said to me, but it makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not.

I would however be interested to know what "cocky answers" you are referring to?

You may doubt whether a plumber would fit a tee like that, but those are the facts.

Regarding fixing from below through the ceiling, I may not have explained the full story, but the ceiling below already has a strip taken out of it and will be patched up and skimmed in the next few weeks, so not as drastic as you make out. Also, since the shower tray has already been stuck down, access from above is already restricted.

 

[trf0412]

Sorry I didn't get back sooner but Shaun's drawing shows where the extra 6 (ish) inches of pipe and the elbow will go as I'm sure you've worked out now.

Thanks for getting back to me. I actually took a screenshot of Shaun's drawing and showed it to our plumber and he agreed to implement the changes (although didn't feel it was strictly necessary). We now have a good fall on the first small section of pipe crossing the joist from the basin waste, and the tee and elbow at the shower end have been sorted, so things are looking much better! Unfortunately, the section between the two elbows still has a very slight uphill incline, but I'm hoping I can reduce this by propping the pipe up at one end with a piece of wood or something.

Incidentally, the plumber chose to implement these fixes from below, so that idea clearly wasn't as mad as it sounded. As I said, the pipes were already partly visible from below and I just made a bigger opening.

 

[Best]

Sorry, but I wouldn't have that guy do any more work and I would personally have all his work removed. He must be a novice to plumbing.
I have just looked again at the original photo and everything on view is wrong.
Way below a minimum acceptable standard of work.

 

[Ric2013]

So, in an ideal world, should each appliance have its own waste which runs all the way to the soil pipe?

Yes

Or is it ok for them to join up further downstream?

Depends on the circumstances as we don't live in an ideal world.

 

[oz-plumber]

Way below a minimum acceptable standard of work.

Bar the fact it is way below minimum acceptable standard of work, it doesn't and never will comply with plumbing regulations.

I would love to see photo's of the amendments from below.

And even after the rectifications, the 'plumber' still has an uphill flow from the basin to the tee.
Basin wastes require a minimum fall of 25mm per metre.
I wonder what the reasoning behind that is - maybe they haven't updated the minimum fall requirements on drains for more than a hundred years or so.

I can't believe the OP is still defending his plumber.

 

[Best]

I wish all my customers were as easy going as the OP.
Seems to be a very decent and forgiving person.
I doubt if I would get away with that work for many of my customers.

 

[Chuck]

I wish all my customers were as easy going as the OP.

There's always two sides to every story. The missing side to this one is what was agreed between the 'plumber' and the OP and at what price.

Most of the professionals who advise on this forum work at the high-end of the market, enjoy their trade and want to keep learning and help others learn. They are typically properly trained and qualified, charge what the job needs to cost to make a reasonable living and won't cut corners.

But don't forget that at the other end of the market there are people who are pretty much working for food and are being ruthlessly exploited by those willing to employ them.

 

[trf0412]

Here's a photo from below. It's not easy to see from this photo where there is a good fall and where there isn't, but this is somewhat of an improvement.

 

[trf0412]

I wish all my customers were as easy going as the OP.
Seems to be a very decent and forgiving person.
I doubt if I would get away with that work for many of my customers.

Well, unfortunately it's not that simple to just sack someone and find an alternative when your bathroom has been ripped out and you have a family (with two kids under the age of 3) to think about. The time it takes to get a quote and find someone with availability in the area where we live would delay things by several weeks or months.

But I think the main reason I come across as forgiving is because as a customer, with very little to no knowledge of plumbing, I don't feel qualified to criticise work done by someone who is supposed to be a professional plumber. The only reason I was confident about questioning the waste pipework was because gravity is something everyone knows about (apart from our plumber it would seem!!).

Also, the suggestion to rip out everything he's done and start from scratch won't address the problem with the notches and holes not complying with building regs, so provided I can make sure there is a fall from the basin, what is there to be gained from starting again? Granted, the wastes could all be kept separate if everything was redone, but that would mean cutting more holes and weakening joists even more, so not ideal...

 

[trf0412]

He probably should have used a length of pipe between the tee and the elbow, right?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

🙁

I wouldn't be happy with that (with what I've seen in the pic)


Basin pipe going through the joist too short

11/2 - 11/4 reducer not all the way in and male to female elbow the same

 

[trf0412]

Basin pipe going through the joist too short

11/2 - 11/4 reducer not all the way in and male to female elbow the same

Oh dear...! What issues are likely to arise from basin pipe going through joist being too short?

I showed plumber a screenshot of your suggested fix, and thought for the most part he'd done what I asked, but I didn't realise it was still so sub-standard.

I wondered whether the reducer should be sticking out the way it is, but provided there's a good seal, will that be a problem?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Other than looking terrible and putting more stress t end no

And supposed to be flush same with the elbow they could pop out

 

[FG28]

fitted bathrooms for years before doing the gas and now do the occasional one or two ,
All i can say is
Not even nvq1 level ,.
It will all work but it just looks horrific ,,
Be very intrested to see the finishing ,?
Is he tiling it too
Aqua panel or similair used around shower area ?
Intial silicone seal round tray ?
The lists endless ,.
Next time id just pay that little bit more and get a proper bathroom fitter not john the pushfit cowboy ,.
Good luck

 

[trf0412]

fitted bathrooms for years before doing the gas and now do the occasional one or two ,
All i can say is
Not even nvq1 level ,.
It will all work but it just looks horrific ,,
Be very intrested to see the finishing ,?
Is he tiling it too
Aqua panel or similair used around shower area ?
Intial silicone seal round tray ?
The lists endless ,.
Next time id just pay that little bit more and get a proper bathroom fitter not john the pushfit cowboy ,.
Good luck

The "it will all work" bit gives me at least some peace of mind, as it's been a bit stressful worrying about all this. But I won't be getting the ceiling below patched up until the bathroom has been in use for a few weeks, just to be on the safe side!

Pretty much all the bathroom fitters were quoting with a couple of hundred of each other, and I didn't go with the cheapest quote...

It's someone else doing the tiling.

Is it wrong to silicone the shower tray in place? I've a feeling that's what he's done...

 

[FG28]

The "it will all work" bit gives me at least some peace of mind, as it's been a bit stressful worrying about all this. But I won't be getting the ceiling below patched up until the bathroom has been in use for a few weeks, just to be on the safe side!

Pretty much all the bathroom fitters were quoting with a couple of hundred of each other, and I didn't go with the cheapest quote...

It's someone else doing the tiling.

Is it wrong to silicone the shower tray in place? I've a feeling that's what he's done...

If its a resin tray it HAS to be cement or a rapid set adhesive , there are quite a few that can be put down using mastic but i would not use a normal silicone , something like CT1 or sticks like , 2 very good grabs adhesives ,
Id google your tray fitting instructions if he hasnt left them there , else that really will come back to bite
Bathrooms really are simple if you do plumbing day in day out , can clearly see you fitter doesnt ? Is he young ? Cut him a little slack if hes just started out ,.

 

[trf0412]

If its a resin tray it HAS to be cement or a rapid set adhesive , there are quite a few that can be put down using mastic but i would not use a normal silicone , something like CT1 or sticks like , 2 very good grabs adhesives ,
Id google your tray fitting instructions if he hasnt left them there , else that really will come back to bite
Bathrooms really are simple if you do plumbing day in day out , can clearly see you fitter doesnt ? Is he young ? Cut him a little slack if hes just started out ,.

Yep, we have a stone resin tray, so I will definitely be looking for the instructions to see what they say. If he did use silicone, I think it may have been the Dow Corning one (good quality one?), as that got mentioned at one point. If it turns out it should have been cemented in and wasn't, what are the sorts of things that could go wrong?

Yep, he's pretty young (24) so I'm hoping the mistakes are due to lack of experience and not due to lack of training/qualifications! But I get the impression he's fitted quite a few bathrooms in his time.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

24 he should have an nvq if he doesn't he's not qualified