Opinion on my recent plumbing work plumber experience please

[RGN007]

My version is I asked a plumber for a quote on fitting a new suite to an existing tiled bathroom. I only asked for him to remove the floor tiles because I was having a wall hung vanity sink and the previous bathroom installer, only 4 years earlier, had tiled the floor around the sink pedestal so this would have left an ugly gap. I didn't realise the plumber would also remove all my new ply sub tiling floor but he said it broke up removing the tiles. Unfortunately, this meant my new vinyl choice also needed yet another ply underlay...oh well...I would not have gone through with removing the floor had he explained this but he didn't and just took up the whole lot. He offered to come back at no extra charge £575 for 3 half days work as he already had other smaller jobs to fit in so he arrived each day just before lunch and left tea time on 2 days and only stayed a couple of hours on the Saturday. He didn't "fit" the toilet or the bath panel, and the several tiles he thought might need replacing stayed in tact all round the bath except for 2, and 2 mosaic ones where the bath was shorter. The tiling was in the price, but whilst doing the job (4 tiles) he said he hated tiling and would I like to employ a tiler! He begrudgingly carried on, though he was delighted I had paid extra on delivery of the suite for all items to be carried upstairs for him.

However, when I went in the bathroom to inspect the progress I was dismayed at the pipes on show beneath the new vanity unit! Had I known in advance I would have a) like a quote for re channeling the pipes. b) send the new vanity unit back intact and paid for a standing one.
At this point the plumber changed personality and started accusing me of thinking he is a charity and that as the customer, I should have been aware that such pipes were obscured by the previous pedestal. I stated I would have expected an experienced plumber to be aware that on giving a quote it was his job to survey where the water supply fed from and that leaving the pipes where they were had defeated the object of my having the floor taking up and that he had now damaged my new vanity unit by making (not that neat) holes through the bottom of it. I could not now return it.

He now says he can refit the pipes (LOOK AT PICTURE ABOVE) a few inches further back QUOTE "out of the goodness of his heart" and a "Gesture of goodwill" BUT that he will now charge me an extra £40 to secure the toilet and bath panel.
He says I am a poor communicator and misunderstand everything he says and it is my fault I did not notice the pipes in the first place.

Comments welcome. I have tried to be as objective as possible, but to be honest, every time I see the guy now I get palpitations.

I said he could refit the pipes but I would solve the fixing the toilet and bath panel myself after my new floor has been installed.

Am I unreasonable feeling the pipes are unsightly and unnecessary as part of the job?

 

[RGN007]

PS, the sink looks huge but it is deceptively much more in keeping that it looks, though the pipes aren't.

 

[Blake]

I've had a few glasses of vino, but yes that does look rather ridiculous. Regardless of possible communication issues, as a plumber I would have expected your plumber to have pointed out the fact that you would have two unsightly pipes on view.

Did the plumber come recommended out of interest?

 

[lame plumber]

write a letter stating your issues in a reasonable manner and await the outcome. No joy trading standards for their opinion. if need be small claims procedure.

re plumbing, not good, could be tidier and tucked away. overall lack of communication in both directions here, did you get a written quote and spec of work involved, if not you are partly to blame as is he. its no win really and stress all round. try my suggestions first and take it from there.

 

[Blake]

It is hard to tell from the pic, but if the wall is plastered and not tiled, I can see no reason why the pipes were not placed in the wall.

 

[michael c]

technically speaking this is down to communication between you both. He should have discussed the pipework with you before starting the job imho.

 

[TBServices]

Did you get more than 1 quote?

 

[SimonG]

Doesn't look like a plumbers work, more like a handyman.

If you wanted that type of basin I would have pointed out that the pipes would be best in the wall. Unfortunately you're only giving one side of the story but it's poor.

 

[lame plumber]

thats insulting to good handymen

 

[SimonG]

two words that generally don't go together.

 

[lame plumber]

sorry handy persons

 

[RGN007]

Thanks. Yes, I had two quotes and they were similar but I am usually a good judge if character and this guy is quietly spoken and was quite pleasant but now I feel he is more quietly controlling. I am a strong fit health professional but dealing with this man has given me a whiff of how a timid pensioner might feel.

I suspect he knows he has botched it, but he is a qualified plumbing and heating engineer and been in my area a number of years.

I am friendly with my ex who isn't a plumber but is gifted with a technical eye and even he says he would have removed 4 tiles under the sink and channeled the pipes in the wall but you might laugh when after having "qualified plumbers" to do a £7000 bathroom in our old house and after 3 major leaks, my ex improvised by refitting the bath uses car radiator hoses and we never had a leak again! he also repaired the Mira shower with a few carburettor bits he had in his engine tuning van. Anyway I digress but thought you might be amused.

 

[RGN007]

You lot must be as sad as me lingering on nursing sites on my days off?

 

[TBServices]

Honestly, the work is crap. BUT we only have 1 side of the story and not all of the facts.

If this had been my job to quote, I would have advised that you should have got a floor standing vanity unit OR that to fit this thing to a decent standard would require ripping up floor, AND ply, to source pipes under floor and channel them back to the wall, but the chances are you wouldn't have liked that quote and gone with this guy who gave you none of the facts and charged you less.

In all honest there was not reason to take up any tiles, because he clearly hasn't modified the pipework and they look so bad just sticking up through the floor like that, that he may as well have just filled in the spot where the pedestal was before (this pipework would look worse than the infill). The basin also looks too high to me, what does it measure to the top?

In future, don't let anyone tile around sanitary wear. It's one of my biggest pet hates, so lazy.

 

[lame plumber]

ouch, not sad helpful

 

[RGN007]

Misunderstanding comment above...

In defense of plumber, the tiling was around old pedestal because water pipes there. My issue on this point is, as a customer, this would never occur to me when years later considering a wall hung sink, but I would have thought a plumber would consider this in a 1950"s house?

No, although the pic demonstrates the pipes well, it has distorted the image of the sink. It actually is really nice and right height. The plumber did think to ask on that point.

 

[TBServices]

Misunderstanding comment above...

In defense of plumber, the tiling was around old pedestal because water pipes there. My issue on this point is, as a customer, this would never occur to me when years later considering a wall hung sink, but I would have thought a plumber would consider this in a 1950"s house?

No, although the pic demonstrates the pipes well, it has distorted the image of the sink. It actually is really nice and right height. The plumber did think to ask on that point.

No, you first fix pipes, tile floor around them then sit pedestal on tiles. Not the other way around.

Yes, my point in the first instance was he should have explained what he was going to do before he started. If he'd been forthcoming you obviously would have said I don't want my pipes sticking through the floor!

 

[Keefy]

Having those pipes on show kind of defeats the object of having a wall hung unit. Now it needs boxing in. Disgusting job.

 

[hammers4spanner]

bit baffled as you saw the progress and saw pipes sticking out floor so why not ask plumbs to hide pipes even if it was an extra it would have been worth paying , although the plumbs imo should have mentioned that in first instance

 

[RGN007]

Yes, and not my new plywood and £250 vinyl topping with pipes through them as,well!

I think I am most upset because he verbally attacks me at it being my fault through ME not pointing the pipes out first so he could add it to the bill. My not-a-plumber ex has noted it only would have involved lifting one loose 12inch part board to join nearer wall. Seems odd my engine tuning non reading but technically adept ex can suss solution where the qualified heating plumbing person sees big problem.

I have paid plumber £500 of the £575. I am tempted to refuse the £75 and use it toward remedial work. Would that be unfair do you think, under the circumstances?

 

[RGN007]

bit baffled as you saw the progress and saw pipes sticking out floor so why not ask plumbs to hide pipes even if it was an extra it would have been worth paying , although the plumbs imo should have mentioned that in first instance

I didn't see pipes until after he had completed hanging and sealing the unit.

I don't want it boxing in and paying him extra to tidy his shoddy workmanship is out of the question. Surprised you'd suggest that.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Was he a plumber of note or one of these so called not really a trade bathroom fitters??

 

[Megaflo-Experts]

Sounds like it's down to poor communications. If you had mentioned it at the beginning he would have known what you expected.
Either he didn't allow for moving the pipes or he thought he could get away with it!
Generally, with wall hung units, I would expect the pipes to be hidden away, and personally I would have raised the issue with the customer at the time.

Did your other quote not mention anything about re-routing the pipes?

It could have been worse...with the waste pipe under there as well🙂

 

[hammers4spanner]

sorry never suggested boxing them in but if i was you i would have said not happy with pipes like i said imo he should have moved them bit of laziness methinks

 

[lame plumber]

ask him to do a decent job of it for the agreed price, if not get a quote to have it done by someoen else and withold money and maybe claim for any extra costs

 

[erpkid]

Yes, and not my new plywood and £250 vinyl topping with pipes through them as,well!

I think I am most upset because he verbally attacks me at it being my fault through ME not pointing the pipes out first so he could add it to the bill. My not-a-plumber ex has noted it only would have involved lifting one loose 12inch part board to join nearer wall. Seems odd my engine tuning non reading but technically adept ex can suss solution where the qualified heating plumbing person sees big problem.

I have paid plumber £500 of the £575. I am tempted to refuse the £75 and use it toward remedial work. Would that be unfair do you think, under the circumstances?

A "real" plumber would have looked at the original set up and pointed out the steps to making this a really good job not necessarily outside the stated price. Sorry that you are in this situation but it will take a little more than the withholding to make good.

 

[tamz]

This has nothing to do with communication.
Any half rsed plumber would have known what to do to leave a decent job. It is lazyness and incompetence.
Stuff like this does my nut in.

 

[Subby]

Have to agree with Tamz, the job is rough and the fitter has gone for the quick, easy option. It is obvious that the pipes should not be going directly through the bottom, and even so, these pipes are not straight anyway! People like this give the rest of us a bad name.

 

[IND_Nick]

I agree with the last couple of posts that this is poor workmanship. Regardless of the communication no quality tradesman would leave a job like this and should of made you aware of the situation, that's why you pay to get a 'professional' in.

 

[RGN007]

I was teasing lame plumber...more of an affectionate comment (knowing I spend a lot of time doing work stuff in my own time). I was surprised to see so many plumbers "off duty" on here!

 

[ne1ls0n]

we fit these all the time now and it goes without saying everythings hidden as its wall hung, :iagree: it is just lazyness

 

[Dannypipe]

Totally agree. That is crap work. No arguement there.

 

[lame plumber]

best thing to happen is for him to end up in a& e and nursy to be there with giant enema and large iron supplement injection! otherwise why not tell the world your location and see if a decent plumber will make good for you fm this site.

 

[Dannypipe]

best thing to happen is for him to end up in a& e and nursy to be there with giant enema and large iron supplement injection! Otherwise why not tell the world your location and see if a decent plumber will make good for you fm this site.

lol!!

 

[RGN007]

Thank-you for all your opinions. I was wondering if my expectations were too high and apparently not.

 

[smtplumbing]

I am not taken sides here but I would of moved the pipes or made note of the pipes needing moved, tho it would been a extra charge wraggle wall then plaster over then smooth then paint full underneath VU would ou of been happy to pay extra to get this done as i no some customers would not pay the extra,

I have done a few of these and i use my wraggle machine to do these my plaster smooths and than we paint it and it looks fantastic

 

[TBServices]

I am not taken sides here but I would of moved the pipes or made note of the pipes needing moved, tho it would been a extra charge wraggle wall then plaster over then smooth then paint full underneath VU would ou of been happy to pay extra to get this done as i no some customers would not pay the extra,

I have done a few of these and i use my wraggle machine to do these my plaster smooths and than we paint it and it looks fantastic

What on earth is a wraggle machine?

 

[smtplumbing]

sorry a channel chaser

 

[RGN007]

I didn't get the opportunity to pay extra, though I do think there is an expectation as a customer asking a quote from an experienced plumber that he/she would check as part of surveying the job. Im disappointed in this case he just put unsightly holes through the floor of my new wall hung drawer sink.

I mean, if you know the customer is ordering a wall hung anything, would it not be good practice to check behind the existing pedestal? He said that was my responsibility to know.

If he had said oops I hadn't realised this, I'll meet you part way it isn't something I would have thought he was ripping me off for unless it was silly extra money.

 

[smtplumbing]

only thing i can think of is when he came to quote the job he never thought about the pipework, and the reason it was not done was lazyness and cost he had not factored this is to the cost.

what did the other person quote did they mention the pipework

steven

 

[RGN007]

smtplumbing,

I wouldn't know if the other plumbers considered the pipework, or how they professionally would have responded had they realised they hadn't thought about it. I do know that had my ex husband quoted for a job on a car and hadn't realised something he thought he should have realised, he would not have expected the customer to pay for his mistake or bad judgement.

I do know the plumber had less work than he quoted for in a couple of other areas such as all the tiling didn't come off round the old bath. He only needed to replace 2 tiles that cracked and 2 new tiles where the plaster was exposed because the new bath was shorter. I also paid the delivery company (Victoria Plumb were very efficient) a 2 man delivery to carry the toilet, the vanity and sink and the corner bath upstairs as one of the other plumbers had balked at getting the bath upstairs.

I didn't expect him to deduct anything for doing less, but likewise if he has made an error in judgement I think he should bear part of the mistake, after all, I am left with a damaged new vanity unit with a hole underneath that shows when you open the draw so if he repaired the problem we both have something to lose.

 

[RGN007]

....to tell you the truth I feel quite scared of him. He is not violent or even shouting, but there is something in his manner that is oppressive and makes me feel panicky. Half of me hopes he doesn't turn up tomorrow and I'd just put the £75 of the £575 I have hung onto toward paying someone else, even if it costs me triple. However, I don't feel like the hassle of him thinking he is entitled to the remainder when I still have the old bath in my garden, the bath side cover in my daughter's bedroom and the toilet is only attached by the soil pipe....oh...and of course the unsightly pipes.