Outside tap advice. (Yes really!)

[JCplumb]

Hi guys.
Was sorting a job for a customer yesterday and they asked me to install an outside tap on Thursday (It was too late to start it at the time).
No problem I hear you say, why on earth would someone who calls themselves a plumber want advice on an outside tap...
Well here's the thing. The house has a cellar which has steps going down to it outside the kitchen wall, so it can't come out there without a few metres of elaborate exterior pipework that will almost definitely freeze in winter, so the only option is to bring it out from the bathroom. The bathroom is fully tiled so can't drill into it without breaking at least one tile, can't drill out from it without making a mess of the outside wall. The only place I can safely drill in without hitting the back of a tile is under the bath, so access to the isolation valve will be hindered by the bath panel. They don't want any exposed pipework.
So my quandary is. I can fit it but the isolation on it will be rendered pointless by the plastic bath panel which needs to be siliconed back in once the job is finished.
What would you do?
1. Do it under the bath with a disclaimer on the invoice about freezing.
2. Go out under the basin which will make a pigs ear of the exterior wall, but will leave an accessible place to have an ISO, this spot will also have to include about a meter of exterior pipework as the sink backs onto a part of wall over the cellar steps.
3. Or go in under the kitchen sink as standard but have a couple of meters of exterior pipework.
The customer is the landlord and doubts the tenants will adhere to the winter drain off rule. So I'd rather use no exterior pipes and a wall plate than a back plate elbow - to reduce the chance of a freeze. The only option where I could do this is from under the bath so no useful internal ISO with that option...
Only the kitchen sink method will allow me to site the tap over a drain, there is no exterior drain outside the bathroom.
I could just put it to the customer and let him decide, but which do you think is the best option?

 

[Gray0689]

Hi guys.
Was sorting a job for a customer yesterday and they asked me to install an outside tap on Thursday (It was too late to start it at the time).
No problem I hear you say, why on earth would someone who calls themselves a plumber want advice on an outside tap...
Well here's the thing. The house has a cellar which has steps going down to it outside the kitchen wall, so it can't come out there without a few metres of elaborate exterior pipework that will almost definitely freeze in winter, so the only option is to bring it out from the bathroom. The bathroom is fully tiled so can't drill into it without breaking at least one tile, can't drill out from it without making a mess of the outside wall. The only place I can safely drill in without hitting the back of a tile is under the bath, so access to the isolation valve will be hindered by the bath panel. They don't want any exposed pipework.
So my quandary is. I can fit it but the isolation on it will be rendered pointless by the plastic bath panel which needs to be siliconed back in once the job is finished.
What would you do?
1. Do it under the bath with a disclaimer on the invoice about freezing.
2. Go out under the basin which will make a pigs ear of the exterior wall, but will leave an accessible place to have an ISO, this spot will also have to include about a meter of exterior pipework as the sink backs onto a part of wall over the cellar steps.
3. Or go in under the kitchen sink as standard but have a couple of meters of exterior pipework.
The customer is the landlord and doubts the tenants will adhere to the winter drain off rule. So I'd rather use no exterior pipes and a wall plate than a back plate elbow - to reduce the chance of a freeze. The only option where I could do this is from under the bath so no useful internal ISO with that option...
Only the kitchen sink method will allow me to site the tap over a drain, there is no exterior drain outside the bathroom.
I could just put it to the customer and let him decide, but which do you think is the best option?

Let the customer decide

 

[Gray0689]

Let the customer decide

And is the bath mains cold

 

[dontknowitall]

You can do a run without it freezing. If you fit a suitable drain point (and have sloping pipework), the customer can drain the pipe for the winter months. A drained pipe cannot freeze.

Just a thought.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Drill a hole into the bathroom tile from inside, then drill a pilot hole through the wall. Drill your full-sized hole half way through the wall from the bathroom side then drill from the outside. Nice and neat outside and in and no broken tiles ... hopefully. 😉

 

[Killy Bing]

tough one !!
here are my inexperienced opinions.

1. if they agree to the terms, covers you and you've put in writing about the issues. put an additional isolate outside as it comes out the wall.

2. get a 25MM tile hole saw for the interior tile, 22MM x 400MM core and core it, no blow out on the external wall, hammer in 22mm as a sleeve and seal for future replacement, tee it with a drain on the bottom, quarter turn brass jobby(might actually get used) and go up to a back plate with the tap.

3. ask to time a service later in the year and turn it off and drain yourself, when they want the outside tap in spring they can figure it out themselves.

i would go for 2 and get the extra tooling for the future.

 

[stevetheplumber]

drill from inside out with a ten mm then each way with a 20mm use a flanged pipe type fitting to hide any breakout

 

[Paulus]

Pass the buck. Give the customer the options with pro's and con's in writing and get him to sign against the option he decides to go with. One lesson I have learned is to always cover you back.

 

[gassafe]

Supply one of those outside tap insulated covers, only a few quid from screwy I bet.

outside taps don't freeze that often anyway. Mine never has, never isolated either.

 

[gassafe]

Stormguard Outside Tap Insulation | NoLinkingToThis

 

[gavinwilson]

Pass it on ,there's a bloke in ***bria does them in 25 minutes

 

[SimonG]

Same as DKIA. Wether the pipes/tap freeze all depend upon location, orientation, prevailing wind etc. If tap is not lowest point of pipework I always fit a drain off and instruct cust to isolate inside, open outside tap and open drain off.

 

[johnnyplumb]

even when the outside tap is the lowest point of the system, closing the isolation valve will not guarantee drainage of pipework etc. it's a bit like filling a short bit of hose with water and holding it vertical with your finger over the top, the water wont drain from the hose until you release your finger.

it's better to have an air inlet/release point after the isolation valve [ a tee piece with a bleed nipple in the branch works a treat ]

close iso valve, open outside tap and open bleed nipple for guaranteed drainage.
it's never done though.

 

[kay-jay]

Do it as standard Joe. If it bursts its cos if the weather not cos of you. Take the callout and repair.

Btw plastic pipe externally has a higher tolerance to bursting.

 

[leethegasman]

If you fit a sure stop valve under bath you could possibly fit the switch In a adjacent cupboard

 

[plumber0808]

Drill it from inside and tile drill on the tile then Diamond core it out clean hole. Why do people pop the face off bricks I hate that hammer a 25mm sds bit through and ruin the outside.

http://m.NoLinkingToThis/p/norton-diamond-core-drill-bit-28-x-300mm/10893?filtered=true

Toolstation > Plumbing > Valves > Wallplate & Tube

 

[Killy Bing]

Marcrist do a cracking 22mm one, i use it for outside taps.

 

[plumber0808]

I have the marcrist cores as well, great drill bits

 

[Keefy]

Iso'---->-----DCV------>-----Draincock----->----|Piepe + Sleeve|---->---Outside Tap
^
^
^
^
<<<< Cold Main

20mm hole, 20mm electrical conduit, slot 15mm pipe through, seal both ends = sorted.

 

[Howsie]

Straight through the tile with an SV on the inside.