Philmac gas fittings

[Michael Groves]

My gas engineer is replacing 6 gas meter boxes. He has discovered when they were installed in 1980 they used PE pipe from behind boxes. This is fine as it's underground. But, there is a metal compression joint, joining copper from box to PE pipe, which is also under ground and hence rusted.
He has advised this does not comply and needs changing. His solution was to use Philmac PE gas fittings. However, he has now advised Philmac literature advises compliant with ISO10838, which was withdrawn in 2015, and replaced with ISO17885.
Philmac are not answering calls or emails to confirm if they are compliant with new standard.
So his suggestion is either leave new connections accessible so we can use metal, or get specialist to fusion weld.
I don't fancy either of the new options, the Philmac solution is much better, but he won't progress with this until there is confirmation the fittings comply with latest standard.

Any suggestions?

Gas engineer has also posted same question elsewhere.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Any pictures of the set up ?

 

[Michael Groves]

Any pictures of the set up ?

Here’s a copy of the exposed pipes, also a snip from the Philmac website.
This was all buried prior to excavation

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That looks like the supplier side eg the mains into the meters ?

 

[Michael Groves]

That looks like the supplier side eg the mains into the meters ?

I wish it was, it’s the domestic side. No mistake.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They look like George fisher fittings

GF Piping Systems

GF Piping System is the leading supplier of piping systems for the safe and reliable transport of liquids and gases.

www.gfps.com

Which is what most transports use underground

 

[Michael Groves]

They look like George fisher fittings

GF Piping Systems

GF Piping System is the leading supplier of piping systems for the safe and reliable transport of liquids and gases.

www.gfps.com

Which is what most transports use underground

If they are, can we keep them, are you allowed to bury these?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If they are, can we keep them, are you allowed to bury these?

yep tech manuals on the link I sent

 

[Michael Groves]

yep tech manuals on the link I sent

Found this, so as long as they are what we think they are, we should be okay. We can just rewrap, and leave alone?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would replace due to the look of them and test then wrap in denso all must be done via a gas safe engineer eg no diy

 

[Michael Groves]

I would replace due to the look of them and test then wrap in denso all must be done via a Registered Gas Engineer eg no diy

I agree with everything you say.
my concern is gas engineer is looking for iso17885, looks like these fitting are iso17875-2.
this means nothing to me, he’s gonna want to be able to reference this in his book. Where will he find confirmation he can use these fittings?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I agree with everything you say.
my concern is gas engineer is looking for iso17885, looks like these fitting are iso17875-2.
this means nothing to me, he’s gonna want to be able to reference this in his book. Where will he find confirmation he can use these fittings?

yes manufacturers instructions state can be used underground (you could email them and ask for this in writing)

 

[Michael Groves]

yes manufacturers instructions state can be used underground (you could email them and ask for this in writing)

Thanks, looks like they have tech support in uk, I’ll give them a call on Monday. +44 24 7653 5535

thanks for your assistance.
[automerge]1603010854[/automerge]

Thanks, looks like they have tech support in uk, I’ll give them a call on Monday. +44 24 7653 5535

thanks for your assistance.

Gas engineer says no compression or mechanical joints can be concealed and must be accessible for inspection.
I’m a spark, our regulations are recommendations. You can deviate and following manufacturers instructions. Is Gas the same, where do we stand if manufacturer says it’s fine, but gas book says joints can’t be concealed?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Some manufacturers can override our gas regs

 

[Michael Groves]

Some manufacturers can override our gas regs

Got a response from Gas Safe Register, I think this clears up a lot of doubt about using MI generally. GSR Engineer now happy to proceed.

In terms of hierarchy, the following documentation should be followed in order. Legislation (Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations 1998), Manufacturers Instructions then Technical Guidance such as British Standards/Institute Gas Engineers & Managers etc.