pin holes in copper

[dsteves619]

Hi guy`s working in a hotel at the moment and every few months I am getting call backs to repair the incoming 15mm copper mains.
Tiny pin ***** holes in the copper are to blame.
The copper seems to be around 30 years old, could it be because of hard/soft water?
Should I advise the owners to replace existing copper with plastic maybe?
Also there are issues with condensation on this particular pipe.
This is the second time in as many months that this has happened, so I suppose it will keep happening until the pipework is changed.
My guess is that the pipework is old, but I`d really like to know why this is happening for future reference.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Hi guy`s working in a hotel at the moment and every few months I am getting call backs to repair the incoming 15mm copper mains.
Tiny pin ***** holes in the copper are to blame.
The copper seems to be around 30 years old, could it be because of hard/soft water?
Should I advise the owners to replace existing copper with plastic maybe?
Also there are issues with condensation on this particular pipe.
This is the second time in as many months that this has happened, so I suppose it will keep happening until the pipework is changed.
My guess is that the pipework is old, but I`d really like to know why this is happening for future reference.

is it YTW yorkshire thin wall?

 

[dsteves619]

Am unsure Gasman, would`nt know how to identify anyhow.

 

[REDSAW]

sounds like that inferior stuff in the 70/80's during the copper shortages?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

redline or ytw printed on it it was brought out during the suez crisis and contains alot of tin,eventually breaks down its ultra thin and unbendable the redlines may have been wire wooled off or be obscured by paint sounds like its a re pipe job

 

[acecharly]

Sounds like contamination of the pipe to me. Is there any evidence of steel works in the location. If for example a grinder had been used near the pipes and sparks had penetrated the surface of the copper it would start to rot the pipe. As for condenstion if were talking water i think that might defeat the object of using copper pipe.

 

[vern]

Am unsure Gasman, would`nt know how to identify anyhow.

It's marked YTW and has a red strip down its length

 

[Edtheplumb]

Inferior copper mixed with Iron instead of Nickel used post war. Is it magnetic? If so, change as it will all be failing about now.

 

[acecharly]

Alot of times Ive come across what looks like stainless which im told was used in the 70's and 80's allways find my pipeslice is knakerd after i cut it.

 

[Guest123]

Alot of times Ive come across what looks like stainless which im told was used in the 70's and 80's allways find my pipeslice is knakerd after i cut it.

You're not meant to use a pipe slice on Stainless Steel, it knackers the cutting wheel and all the manufacturers state this. I hate SS with a vengeance, nasty stuff that rots from inside out and can be a nightmare to trace a leak from a resulting pin hole.

Modern SS used in hospitals is a much better grade.

 

[dsteves619]

Pipework has been painted so its difficult to tell.
Acecharley there isnt any evidence of steelworks around the pipework.
If I remember rightly both of the pin holes have been close to a bender formed bend.

 

[Guest123]

Sounds like the wall has been thinned on the formed bend. Can't you remove this and a section attached to it and renew?

 

[acecharly]

As said try a magnet on it. Look for the redline or ytw stamp. I'd explain the situation to the guy and make up a quote to change it explaining that you will probably have to keep coming back otherwise which is going to cost more in the long run. Alternatively replace the section by the formed bend maybe?

 

[acecharly]

You're not meant to use a pipe slice on Stainless Steel, it knackers the cutting wheel and all the manufacturers state this. I hate SS with a vengeance, nasty stuff that rots from inside out and can be a nightmare to trace a leak from a resulting pin hole.

Modern SS used in hospitals is a much better grade.

I dont do this anymore i learnt my lesson now :teeth_smile:

 

[dsteves619]

Yeah I can do that and have done that already, system3, but my main concern is weather this is gonna keep happening and for me to have to replace the main with plastic( will use plastic as they are having condensation issues).
If I go ahead and replace, it will be quite a big job and will involve having rooms out for the hotel which understandably they don`t want.
TBH it looks like I will have to replace pipework eventually because I can see these pin holes popping up here there and everywhere, I just wanted to know if anyone else had experienced them thats all,
cheers for the advice so far guys.:teeth_smile:

 

[Best]

I know of two houses that have similar problem - tiny white dots on both tank & mains water pipes. They are normal 15mm copper pipes stamped "Black Label" & about 25 years max.
One of the pipes is a vent from a cylinder & it angles up the roof rafters for several feet & i noticed that the white dots were on the bottom part of the angled pipe. Obviously corroding from the inside & green lumps of corrosion can be seen inside the pipe when it is cut.

 

[Edtheplumb]

As I said (someone else is stealing credit, most annoying), check with a magnet. If it sticks, replace. It will fail on a straight length as easy on a bend - it all has to go. It will cost the customer far less to replace than the continual re-decoration. Be sure to take credit for knowing what to look for and how to rectify. It is his problem, yes; but you are saving him 10 yrs of hell if you replace early - he may even be able to get insurer to chip in.

 

[acecharly]

"HOW ANNOYING" If you read my post ED you will see i wrote "as said" im sorry i never quoted you by name, heavens forbid i was to ever steal your credit ....

 

[Dannypipe]

Round my way, they used this stuff in the 70's when there was a copper shortage.

This photo is from a bathroom job we did a few years back. We found it when we lifted the floor. Client wasn't happy to hear that his entire posh victorian house was plumbed in this crap and needed a full re-pipe.

Same nominal size as standard copper, but notice the swept elbows. Also it pinholes and rusts badly. From the inside out. Condensation can also be an issue though. The little pile of pipe in this photo wasn't actually leaking, but the wall was so thin you could push the nib of a biro through it (in the rust spots).

I feel for you if your house is plumbed in this. Don't come across it often.

 

[acecharly]

looks like the SS carp i was talking about earlier....yuk

 

[Dannypipe]

Yeah, not sure if it's SS. I didn't check it with a magnet. Stainless steel isn't magnetic of course. So I would be ruling it out not in!! 🙂

 

[Dannypipe]

Thinking about it, I think it might be coated in stainless steel, but standard mild steel beneath. I'll pick the old mans brain when I speak with him, as I can't remember. I know when I see it, alarm bells start to go off in my head!!

 

[dsteves619]

Cheers guy`s, think I know how I`m gonna deal with it.
Going back to the job Tuesday so I will let u all know if it is infact, magnetic.:sifone:

 

[justlead1]

Hi. I have come across a few similar problems but not always pipe failure as have been described but the composition of the water. i have witnessed well water dissolving copper in the form of pin holes. It is also worth asking questions locally of other users. Water supplies are unique to to the area from which they are collected. Good Luck