Rob Foster
Esteemed
ok ...can you scan and post the invoices please on here I/we will look at them ..Rob Foster
aka centralheatking so maybe you paid...cash ! with no record
please advise
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
- Thread starter missfrances
- Start date
aka centralheatking so maybe you paid...cash ! with no record
please advise
I did not pay cash! I paid by card, over the phone. I have a record on my bank statement of the payment made for £498 to the company. I requested the plumbers email me the paperwork on that day, including a breakdown, as I was shocked by the price, but they never did, and now they're saying they don't have any invoices because of a change of ownership of the business! Yesterday they agreed to email me a breakdown, but I'm still waiting for it. I think I could be waiting a long time! As for the next plumber, who I'm meeting on Thursday, happy to post his advice.
W
Welder
TBH, I do not understand why you are even entering into this type of discussion. It's both annoying and distracting so rise above it.
If you want chapter and verse about what is wrong and, most importantly, how to fix it just post what has been asked for please. We will then set you right with something you can action rather than pontificate about.
Sorry to be rude but I've not got time to waste. Your choice.
Rob Foster
Esteemed
ok MissF... basically there is no paper trail on this one so far, no
recipts for the work carried out
and it might seem no records of whom helped you ...surely you took their GSF number and telephone etc ...centrakheatking
Rob Foster
Esteemed
I agree YD. we are wasting our time in a wally ...I am out ...but will watch. chking
Rob Foster
Esteemed
I agree YD. we are wasting our time in a wally ...I am out ...but will watch. chking
Rob Foster
Esteemed
oops posted 3x sorry maybe I was getting bored chking
lets get on with the next real problems hey.
Thanks Yorkshire Dave. I've been trying to rise above it! Getting a little upset. I visited the house today just to take some better images of the pipework, and I've now asked Tom (tenant) to take an extra photo behind the red cylinder. I'll have to wait for him to get back to me.
Rob Foster
Esteemed
W
Welder
People just don't do that Rob. We all want to believe we've got a 'good un' and there's no need to worry 🙁
Rob Foster
Esteemed
you and I must meet up I think
...I can travel ..after march when it gets lighter .. your call
Rob Foster ..whats your drunking place ....deliberate miss spell ! ...Rob Foster
W
Welder
I agree.
I tried to open a conversation with you earlier today but was told I couldn't 🙁 Any idea why?
Have you blocked me again 😉
FWIW, if the business has changed ownership then I would usually expect that the business still exists and its records, assets, and liabilities will pass on to the new owner. While I can understand that certain details might be lost, anything contractual and recent should still be there! Sounds like you are being fobbed off.
We've all been there. Recently my van got scraped while parked on my own drive and, at the same time, my fence was knocked over by a contractor working for Essex County Council. Despite plenty of forensic evidence, the police was uninterested and nothing got sorted. But I dealt with the problem: repaired the fence and van and got on with my life. I will raise the issue at a council meeting about how contractors should be selected more carefully, but in a way, it's good that I didn't make a claim on the contractor as my insurance did not go up. Similarly, I would suggest that if you have written to the company and had no proper reply, you concentrate on the current problem and worry about what you were charged another time when you're less annoyed.
If Dave and Rob are meeting at some point, then I would be interested in joining them if they are interested? PM me if there a small social and you want me there as I think you would both be interesting to meet.
We've all been there. Recently my van got scraped while parked on my own drive and, at the same time, my fence was knocked over by a contractor working for Essex County Council. Despite plenty of forensic evidence, the police was uninterested and nothing got sorted. But I dealt with the problem: repaired the fence and van and got on with my life. I will raise the issue at a council meeting about how contractors should be selected more carefully, but in a way, it's good that I didn't make a claim on the contractor as my insurance did not go up. Similarly, I would suggest that if you have written to the company and had no proper reply, you concentrate on the current problem and worry about what you were charged another time when you're less annoyed.
If Dave and Rob are meeting at some point, then I would be interested in joining them if they are interested? PM me if there a small social and you want me there as I think you would both be interesting to meet.
Rob Foster
Esteemed
W
Welder
Enough already. I want to get on with my life... 🙄
So, let's look at the issue you posted where your water pressure was dropping so you had the repair for £500 carried out.
It is obvious that the 'control block' (the new part consisting of a pressure reducing valve and pressure relief valve) is new. Based on the fact that you've not had any maintenance carried out on your unvented cylinder to that point, it is quite likely that the filter inside the pressure reducing valve had become blocked leaving you with a much lower flow rate - which you would describe as a loss of 'pressure'. As it would be completely calcified (bunged up) the correct resolution was applied. That is, to fit a new control block.
Herein lies a problem. A non manufacturers part would cost no more than £50. Adding 25% is reasonable so a parts bill of £70.
IF it were a 'genuine' part (read further stitch up) from the manufacturer then it could well be double that. All in all tho, nowhere near £200.
As you are in London, the most expensive plumbers are Pimlico Heating. They charge £157 per hour. So, your maximum labour charge should have been approx £150. Again nowhere near the £300 you were charged.
Moving on. Your system is a mess. It needs urgently resolving in order to be both compliant and safe.
As a landlord, you have a legal obligation to have it appropriately serviced, but you also have a duty of care.
What you need, is an experienced G3 engineer to look at your system and to set it right. You will need a full service on it to make sure it is fit for purpose and working most efficiently. This will involve some pipework modifications to make it comply with regulations and to remove your neck from the noose should anything go wrong and it harm someone, or do damage to your home.
Insurers look for things like this in order to escape their moral responsibilities. If you had a water leak on the hot side, insurers may well ask to see the cylinders maintenance history. If you cannot provide it then they can, and do in my experience, simply walk away from the claim due to YOU not carrying out required maintenance.
The fact you simply did not know means nothing. It's entirely your responsibility to find out what you don't even know to ask about 🙄
I strongly suspect that the engineer who turned up was NOT G3 qualified. Obviously I cannot know, so IMHO, it should form a line of enquiry from you to them as to the person attending's appropriateness of qualifications. The reason you have a right to know, is the poor state of the cylinder installation and its lack of servicing. Every G3 engineer I have ever met would have pointed out all of these things when there or reported post event simply to cover their backsides 🙂 Further, the engineer should NOT have worked on it if unqualified.
It is NOT dangerous in the short term so do not panic.
It does however need fixing urgently and appropriate resolutions applied. Please make sure he/she checks the rating of the control block components even though they are new. They MUST be rated the same as original to comply with safety accreditations.
Overall, it's a bit of a bugger's muddle really. The good news is that you are now placed to both understand what was and to move forward with some considerable confidence.
You have now learned that as a landlord your head is in a noose continually. You really must both investigate and take seriously those various responsibilities but, unfortunately, agents also try to BS you by wittering on about aspects of things just to scare you - e.g. annual legionella assessments and deep cleans.
Anyway, I hope we have been able to help. When you return, as I know you'll not be able to keep away for our combined charms, you'll be a little wiser. Please update us. 🙂
Sorry it was so long 😡
So, let's look at the issue you posted where your water pressure was dropping so you had the repair for £500 carried out.
It is obvious that the 'control block' (the new part consisting of a pressure reducing valve and pressure relief valve) is new. Based on the fact that you've not had any maintenance carried out on your unvented cylinder to that point, it is quite likely that the filter inside the pressure reducing valve had become blocked leaving you with a much lower flow rate - which you would describe as a loss of 'pressure'. As it would be completely calcified (bunged up) the correct resolution was applied. That is, to fit a new control block.
Herein lies a problem. A non manufacturers part would cost no more than £50. Adding 25% is reasonable so a parts bill of £70.
IF it were a 'genuine' part (read further stitch up) from the manufacturer then it could well be double that. All in all tho, nowhere near £200.
As you are in London, the most expensive plumbers are Pimlico Heating. They charge £157 per hour. So, your maximum labour charge should have been approx £150. Again nowhere near the £300 you were charged.
Moving on. Your system is a mess. It needs urgently resolving in order to be both compliant and safe.
As a landlord, you have a legal obligation to have it appropriately serviced, but you also have a duty of care.
What you need, is an experienced G3 engineer to look at your system and to set it right. You will need a full service on it to make sure it is fit for purpose and working most efficiently. This will involve some pipework modifications to make it comply with regulations and to remove your neck from the noose should anything go wrong and it harm someone, or do damage to your home.
Insurers look for things like this in order to escape their moral responsibilities. If you had a water leak on the hot side, insurers may well ask to see the cylinders maintenance history. If you cannot provide it then they can, and do in my experience, simply walk away from the claim due to YOU not carrying out required maintenance.
The fact you simply did not know means nothing. It's entirely your responsibility to find out what you don't even know to ask about 🙄
I strongly suspect that the engineer who turned up was NOT G3 qualified. Obviously I cannot know, so IMHO, it should form a line of enquiry from you to them as to the person attending's appropriateness of qualifications. The reason you have a right to know, is the poor state of the cylinder installation and its lack of servicing. Every G3 engineer I have ever met would have pointed out all of these things when there or reported post event simply to cover their backsides 🙂 Further, the engineer should NOT have worked on it if unqualified.
It is NOT dangerous in the short term so do not panic.
It does however need fixing urgently and appropriate resolutions applied. Please make sure he/she checks the rating of the control block components even though they are new. They MUST be rated the same as original to comply with safety accreditations.
Overall, it's a bit of a bugger's muddle really. The good news is that you are now placed to both understand what was and to move forward with some considerable confidence.
You have now learned that as a landlord your head is in a noose continually. You really must both investigate and take seriously those various responsibilities but, unfortunately, agents also try to BS you by wittering on about aspects of things just to scare you - e.g. annual legionella assessments and deep cleans.
Anyway, I hope we have been able to help. When you return, as I know you'll not be able to keep away for our combined charms, you'll be a little wiser. Please update us. 🙂
Sorry it was so long 😡
Rob Foster
Esteemed
this type of incompetance by a landlord ..in my experience tends to be the tip of an iceberg,
have you a current landlords and tennants gas safe certificate ? ...show us...are all your smoke alarms ok ? if you are a bona fide landlord then you will have a current inventory produced by an estate agent ..
have you a current landlords and tennants gas safe certificate ? ...show us...are all your smoke alarms ok ? if you are a bona fide landlord then you will have a current inventory produced by an estate agent ..
Rob Foster
Esteemed
W
Welder
Perhaps, Rob, just perhaps this is not the tip of an iceberg but innocent ignorance. If you read through the posts, the lady says the only reason they moved out was because of a rotten neighbour - we all know that feeling! She also says, without prompting, that she still considers this her home. Perhaps, just perhaps, she is letting privately and has not bothered with parasitic agents who, let's face it add ziltch in any way shape or form and charge the Earth for adding so little. I could recount personal stories of straight up agent corruption here - but I won't. 🙄
I totally get where you are coming from and, no doubt like you, have seen the penny pinching scumbag landlords fall flat on their faces - to our great amusement. 😎😎
Not all though are cut from the same cloth and some landlords, the only ones I ever worked for at least, are caring considerate people who deserve far more than the awful tenants often give them.
Perhaps, once again, we might at least wait till the head enters the noose before kicking away the steps 😀
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