Plumber has caused leaks throughout the house

[Reading1986]

Hello

I thought I'd post a post.

I am currently under going a full re dec of the whole house, new flooring, skirting, architrave window boards and nice new rads.

Plumber came to fit the new rads, drained down the system. To begin the work the next day.

I had a call from the kitchen floor tilers to say there was a leak coming into the lounge ceiling / window reveal. Ruined the reveal. Needs plastering or maybe replacing

I called the plumber and he came back round to check straight away. I wasn't in at time and made my way back home straight away. Water had come in from the above bedrooms and into the lounge reveal. I got home and checked the living room out. And around the whole house. Checked everywhere. Plumber had left by the time I got there.

The next day the kitchen tilers rang again to say there is water coming coming through the kitchen ceiling ( alot of it) all over the kitchen floor. Wrecked the new kitchen plinths. Potentially the kitchen floor grout. All the other rooms have had ply laid down ready for amitco flooring. The ply had had a fair amount of water over it. Ensuite flooded. Landing carpet completely soaked around the rad area. So I've had to open an insurance claim.

The plumber is saying that both valves. The heating filling loop were letting water by. So even thou he had drained the system it was letting water by and filling the system up.

Question should he have discovered that the "valves" for the heating filling loop were at "fault" when draining the system. Or is this completely avoidable.

Now left with a huge amount of unnecessary damage. Plumber is demanding a days wage when was only there from 9 to 2pm. He's replaced the 2 valves on the filling loop as he said they were at fault. Also bearing in mind I had a rad capped off month before and some work a month before that. So the system has been drained down twice fully successfully without any issues.....oh this was done by a different plumber. Who I would normally use. But was unfortunately to busy with his schedule to fit me on for this rad work.

So has the plumber been incompetent and not checking the system correctly and making sure it's draining down correctly, also should he have had detected these issues when draining down the system, therefore avoiding all of these issues I now have / or should he have detected the issues on his second visit when I called to say i had a leak in the lounge from the rad pipes above.


Should I pay or not.....would really like some advice. Never had this much damage done or any after a trades man has been in.

 

[Reading1986]

So my insurance have approved my claim which is one less headache which is good. Plumber has sent an invoice over, he's push the price up from £250 to £270 on the invoice. I told the plumber that I am passing the invoice over to my insurance company. I believe once the insurance claim has been sorted, they will try to recover the claim through his insurance company. Check a trade shows he has 2 million liability insurance. Invoice wise I'm still struggling to know what to do....do I pay? If my insurance recover the loses through his insurance company I will get my £380 excess back. I feel if I get my excess back then i definitely should pay his bill. But only once I get my excess back. Dose this sound unreasonable? At the moment I'm left with damage to my home, £380 excess. So I can't justify paying his invoice at the moment.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I wouldn’t not until it’s all sorted and you get your money back from his insurance then you pay

 

[Reading1986]

I wouldn’t not until it’s all sorted and you get your money back from his insurance then you pay

That's what I was thinking, once everything is resolved house wise and I have my insurance excess back then of course I'd pay the invoice. Should he be pushing the invoice up? Seems strange

 

[centralheatking]

That's what I was thinking, once everything is resolved house wise and I have my insurance excess back then of course I'd pay the invoice. Should he be pushing the invoice up? Seems strange

You are correct, let him know that his invoice will be settled after the insurance has been straightened out. If you pay him it might look like you are satisfied with his work. Refer him to your insurance company ...centralheatking

 

[Reading1986]

You are correct, let him know that his invoice will be settled after the insurance has been straightened out. If you pay him it might look like you are satisfied with his work. Refer him to your insurance company ...centralheatking

That's also what I thought, if I pay I'm almost saying thank you for your good work oh and the leak, here's your invoice paid in full. But I agree paying shows that I'm satisfied with the works

 

[Scott_D]

Have your insurance company requested his details?

 

[Reading1986]

Have your insurance company requested his details?

Yes they asked for the invoice he sent over. Which I forwarded over to them. Is that the correct thing to do?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes they asked for the invoice he sent over. Which I forwarded over to them. Is that the correct thing to do?

Yep

If he calls again tell him it’s in the hands of the insurance and there In contact With his

 

[Reading1986]

Yep

If he calls again tell him it’s in the hands of the insurance and there In contact With his

Thank you, I feel like a little grass. But as a business owner (him) he can't behave in this manner. You cant flood someone's house and cause leaks....then ask for payment as if all is fine. I can't believe the front he has. I'd be so embarrassed if I did this. Especially only being established on companies house for 3 months.

 

[bacon_sandwich]

Well he is maintaining it was not his fault, so of course he would be expecting payment for all his good works. However you hold him responsible for flooding the house which, it is reasonable , not to pay for such a poor service. There in lies the dispute. The only issue i can see is if your insurance company decide not to pursue his insurance company for the loss, however you can still deal with this outside of the insurance process. Do not pay, is my advice, its not a good sign

 

[centralheatking]

Thank you, I feel like a little grass. But as a business owner (him) he can't behave in this manner. You cant flood someone's house and cause leaks....then ask for payment as if all is fine. I can't believe the front he has. I'd be so embarrassed if I did this. Especially only being established on companies house for 3 months.

Ok Reading1986 now is the time to sit back ...you have done all that is required..things are in hand with experts..leave them to it. As above my wife is a barrister of many years experience you must now leave it ...you have been wronged but never let it take over..she knows these things. chking

 

[Reading1986]

Ok Reading1986 now is the time to sit back ...you have done all that is required..things are in hand with experts..leave them to it. As above my wife is a barrister of many years experience you must now leave it ...you have been wronged but never let it take over..she knows these things. chking

So I'm insurance company called him and all is currently going through. I do believe my insurance company will try to recover the costs once the insurance claim has gone through. He messaged me today to ask for payment again. He told me that my insurance company told me to pay him. Called the insurance company to check this out it's completely untrue. All they was to ascertain whether is was the person that worked on the system that shortly then leaked. So I called the plumber and said very politely that this is untrue and the lose adjuster was simply gathering information regarding the claim. He then said when are you paying me. I said at the moment until the claim is fully resolved and I have got my £380 back. Then I will pay your invoice in full. I also ask if this invoice was for one days labour which I said it was. Then I politely said but you only did 4 hours. He then said ok give me £180 cash today. This guy is literally unbelievable. So by the fact he went out from £270 to £180 he knows he's done wrong and accepted that he only did 4 hours. All I did was mentioned is real working time on my house and he dropped it straight away. He then said can I have the £180 today I said once the insurance has fully paid and I have recovered by loses i.e excess. Really don't no what do here. Do I inform my insurance company about him directly as up to now only the lose adjuster who is a separate company is aware of who he and his company are?

 

[centralheatking]

yes tell your insurance company directly, tell them he is putting you under undue pressure. A call to trading standards would no go amiss on identical lines. He comes over as a chancer with no feeling of guilt. Do not pay him tell him not to contact you again. If he persists bullying you have a word with your local police. Centralheatking

 

[Best]

Only contact the plumber in written form where possible and take care in what you write. Basically you want the plumber to state all the bull and show his hand.
Emails and even text messages are also verification of communications (if they get responses), so do keep them.
Pay the plumber nothing and say in any correspondence to him that your insurance has advised you they are dealing with the plumber together hopefully with his insurance about your claim for damages to your property.

 

[oz-plumber]

I get the feeling you are being 'ridden' by the insurance company - 5 claims and 5 excesses - on 1 property and one heating system.
No Judge would accept that in Court - You would need an individual insurance policy on every room of your house for that to take effect.

The Plumber: - all correspondence to be via email from now on.
Get him to email you a detailed 'scope of works' on the invoice.

If it is a Regulation that the filling loop is to be disconnected from the heating system then question him after the detailed invoice has been sent through.

If the detailed invoice doesn't satisfy you, keep questioning him until there is something that he admits to that doesn't comply with the Regulations and you will have him.
Try to get him to accept you original offer of 50% and put it against the Insurance Claim - due to being under duress.

 

[Reading1986]

I get the feeling you are being 'ridden' by the insurance company - 5 claims and 5 excesses - on 1 property and one heating system.
No Judge would accept that in Court - You would need an individual insurance policy on every room of your house for that to take effect.

The Plumber: - all correspondence to be via email from now on.
Get him to email you a detailed 'scope of works' on the invoice.

If it is a Regulation that the filling loop is to be disconnected from the heating system then question him after the detailed invoice has been sent through.

If the detailed invoice doesn't satisfy you, keep questioning him until there is something that he admits to that doesn't comply with the Regulations and you will have him.
Try to get him to accept you original offer of 50% and put it against the Insurance Claim - due to being under duress.

Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated

 

[centralheatking]

Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated

How dreadfull to be put under such pressure like that, I feel ashamed on behalf of our trade.
I certainly would have held out but peace of mind is paramount and as you say £180 as a kiss off to this terd of the first order will relax you... regards centralheatking

 

[Best]

Regarding the multiple insurance claims, it's been put down as only 1 claim which is the correct thing. They should never have suggested that it would be multiple claims until they had all the facts. After they reviewed the claim they have confirmed one claim.

He's been pestering for his money and has put be under a lot of pressure to settle. I called him and said you only did 4 hours. I only asked what dose he call a "days labour" he replied 8 hours. Because of the amount of pressure from him I have unfortunately paid £180. 180 isn't half 250 or 270. So I'm not sure where is 180 came from. But it's paid and I have had legal advice. The legal advice was me asking if I pay will this impact recovery of the costs to my home. Sounds bad but I really don't care about the 180. He was taking up to much of my time and worry.

Regarding regulations of how to drain down a system and capp etc. I have a series of very detailed photos and videos of the leak in progress and it clearly shows that closing of bleed valve's didn't happen. Clearly shows that the open ends weren't capped. Also shows that the filling loop wasn't correctly isolated

Why did you pay the plumber any money? What pressure did he put on you?
He did a job for you and as a direct result of that it seems your house got flooded from open valves. I see no reason for any payment for such work to the plumber, but clearly you need compensation for all the damage.
The new filling loop work second job is different and that is fair enough for payment.
Now that you have paid some money looks like you were at least partly satisfied with the plumbers work. Were you? I would guess not.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the plumber knew it was to his advantage.
I wouldn’t take pressure from anyone

 

[Reading1986]

How dreadfull to be put under such pressure like that, I feel ashamed on behalf of our trade.
I certainly would have held out but peace of mind is paramount and as you say £180 as a kiss off to this terd of the first order will relax you... regards centralheatking

Honestly sounds very odd but the peace of mind I have now, from paying his bill or re agreed bill. It's one less worry. While I won't get that back. I have my claim going through, and they have confirmed they will be recovering all costs from his insurance company. But by paying him my line of communication between me and him thankfully has gone. Honestly horrible person to deal with. Extremely aggressive. Still to this day blaming the mains side filling loop valve. Had closed the system side as well, removed the filling hose and capped. Also capped open ends and closed bleed valve's.....all of this wouldn't have happened. I done a fair amount of investigation of my own into how he should of isolated the system correctly etc. I actually think I could have done a better and more professional job

 

[Best]

Your first post asked should you pay the plumber. Advice given here was generally do not pay him.
If your story was correct, it was clear circumstances where you do not need to pay your plumber for the first job.
You employed a supposed professional but got unprofessional work - in fact incorrect and a very risky procedure done, which the plumber is fully liable.
Advice to inform plumber it was the insurances dealing with all monies was good advice