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View the thread, titled "POC entering building" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.

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boilerbrigade

Hi all I'm after a little advice...

Today i ID'd a boiler because the plume was flooding into the building through the open door, not a wisp the whole lot. I only went to move a 1.5m run of gas pipe, that a previous engineer had installed in the wrong place only last week, may I add he did not even turn in the boiler after doing this work let alone do any of 26.9....

was as a condensing ideal icos 15 that had been shoed in buy some clown.

anyway i I fired it up checked it all and when I opened the back door the poc just poured in, flue was 500mm from the door and about 900mm from the floor, was gas tight correct o/p etc etc and ok combustion readings - CO was 18ppm.

Anyway i continued testing the boiler and as the wind changed the plume entry got worse - so I capped the gas. Customer obviously not happy... Then I get a phone call from an engineer, the engineer who fitted the original gas pipe and failed to turn on the boiler explaining about room a co test which I already know about bla bla bla, which I'm not qualified to do what I did know though was that the co leaving the boiler was 18ppm and the whole lot was entering property.

I explained to to the customer that the rules say about 10ppm and rising but I can't do a room co test, I don't have that module on my ticket however it's poring in and I believe it's dangerous.

So I still stand by what I say, the un commissioning engineer agreed this but now customer is saying boiler should have been left on, and they would not open the door.... I explained about saftey and how regardless the door could be opened and explained that a plume kit would solve the problem - what else can I say?

Thanks in advance guys.
 
Ps is this in the right area for discussion? If not can someone move it and let me know! Thanks
 
you can do a room test for that purpose . I would have thought at 500mm there would be very little co
 
We can never control the wind and as long as the terminals within guidelines then ok, (unless pocs are entering property),
You mentioned a module, you just need a seperate probe for testing CO, is the 18ppm CO was that on a combustion test out of the flue, because if it is its then diluted with the air as it leaves the flue and 18 is quite low , ( not low if whole lot going inside but )
 
Id return and properly check as someone might be without heating for no reason,
 
its not i.d its at best a.r as the door can be shut and no problem the poc's have already mixed with 02 when leaving the flue!!

advise customer and then it is thier choice!!
 
How diluted were the poc's that were entering the property? Unless you can prove this installation Immediately Dangerous you're treading on thin ice IMHO 🙂 Could have been nothing but steam.

When did Icos stop being made? About 5yrs maybe more... I'd imagine if this appliance was Immediately Dangerous because of re-entry of poc's then it would have been picked up before now eh?
Mi's reckon 300mm is far enough away from an opening. Always good to err on the side of caution but water vapour does not equal danger and I think you've been a tad zealous personally! I'd certainly not be happy if someone had caused me a call back to an install I'd done as per manufacturers instructions!
 
I know what your saying about shutting the door but it's an openable door into the property - if the door is left open, even by a burglar and the boiler for whatever reason comes on then all of the poc are gonna pour into the kitchen.

I looked at facts - when the boiler is running, the pocs are entering the property. For the record there is also an air brick 300mm above the flue, leading into the room as well it's one of those installs....

when I updated my acs about 5 months ago I was told that to test room CO and correctly interperate results you require an additional module on your acs cmdda1 or something like that... I have the probes etc.

AR would have still had the same consequences, no usage of boiler, but I'm quite happy I did the right thing, when I asked the customer if he was happy to run a boiler with flue gasses running into the house he said no... I could not guarantee it was safe.

forgive me if I'm wrong - products of combustion entering building is immediately dangerous, in times gone by where a condenser was fitted with no sump trap or seal a condensate leak would be ID - I know this because it happened to me on my inspection!

In 15 years it's not something I have ever come across before but I think with the introduction of condensers and new building regs regarding flue siting then I will see it a lot more often, I'm not one to cut off a boiler for no reason as I said before I could not guarantee it was safe

at least I checked the other fella just connected gas and did one, saying he could not find programmer to turn heating on!
 
How diluted were the poc's that were entering the property? Unless you can prove this installation Immediately Dangerous you're treading on thin ice IMHO 🙂 Could have been nothing but steam.

When did Icos stop being made? About 5yrs maybe more... I'd imagine if this appliance was Immediately Dangerous because of re-entry of poc's then it would have been picked up before now eh?
Mi's reckon 300mm is far enough away from an opening. Always good to err on the side of caution but water vapour does not equal danger and I think you've been a tad zealous personally! I'd certainly not be happy if someone had caused me a call back to an install I'd done as per manufacturers instructions!

the only engineer who had been to the boiler re run the gas pipe I today replaced, but he did not even turn the boiler on after running new gas pep, could not find programmer apparently...
 
How diluted were the poc's that were entering the property? Unless you can prove this installation Immediately Dangerous you're treading on thin ice IMHO 🙂 Could have been nothing but steam.

When did Icos stop being made? About 5yrs maybe more... I'd imagine if this appliance was Immediately Dangerous because of re-entry of poc's then it would have been picked up before now eh?
Mi's reckon 300mm is far enough away from an opening. Always good to err on the side of caution but water vapour does not equal danger and I think you've been a tad zealous personally! I'd certainly not be happy if someone had caused me a call back to an install I'd done as per manufacturers instructions!

the boiler was not fitted to MI's, far from it air brick 300above flue, no clearance and pipe work pressed against side of boiler, 100mm of the floor - if I was really picky I could say that the condensate was dripping into a tub under boiler as was not connected to anything....
 

could always carry a couple of these in the van if your not too sure...lol

th
 
the boiler was not fitted to MI's, far from it air brick 300above flue, no clearance and pipe work pressed against side of boiler, 100mm of the floor - if I was really picky I could say that the condensate was dripping into a tub under boiler as was not connected to anything....

isn't 300mm ok? Ideal mi's state 300mm below,above or alongside an opening is acceptable (P8, Ideal Icos HE12 - 24...!

How long had the boiler been installed?
What measurements were you getting in the poc's at the door? I'm assuming you got 18ppm directly in the flue yeh?

You get to see a lot of dodgy installs that are perfectly safe!

I don't disagree that you believe you did the right thing, however i'd probably turn off the majority of condensing boilers if I was worried about the steam clouds blowing into open windows when the winds in the wrong direction. 🙂
 
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It does your right, I never had that info though as no MI's with boiler and no signal in I pad, I only had the viper book and the logic training book which say 1500 below an air brick, I have never seen another one except the icos saying 300 is ok though. It is what it is, I was not happy to leave it as it was - when my apprentice walked into the kitchen from the dining room looked like a scene from gorillas in the mist!
 
was the front door open too? Sounds like you had one heck of a through draught 🙂
 
I take it the flue had a terminal guard fitted as it was 900mm from the floor? Surely the steam entering the building would be a nuisance, but what if the boiler was to develop a fault? Potentially deadly POC's entering the property through the air brick or the door.......would AR stand up in court or err on the side of caution, ID it and fit a plume kit?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree altogether??
Just so I'm clear if I was to come across this scenario.......
 
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