Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
Small hole in immersion tank. What's the best way to seal it?
View the thread, titled "Small hole in immersion tank. What's the best way to seal it?" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
i would bite the bullet and get it replaced, warning bells ringing
P
petercj
If there's one pin-hole, there are probably more on the way.
But if you are going to try to patch it - providing you can make good contact re the shape, a copper patch fixed with Araldite is likely to be better than using poxy-dough. You can buy off-cuts of copper sheet on ebay, or try a local sheet-metal shop.
But if there are more on the way and not yet showing, the first you know of them might be when you see water dripping through your ceiling.
But if you are going to try to patch it - providing you can make good contact re the shape, a copper patch fixed with Araldite is likely to be better than using poxy-dough. You can buy off-cuts of copper sheet on ebay, or try a local sheet-metal shop.
But if there are more on the way and not yet showing, the first you know of them might be when you see water dripping through your ceiling.
G
Guest123
Replace the tank, you're existing one has had it's day and is now telling you that it doesn't want to be there any more!
Stainless steel is cheaper and in most cases you get a 10 year guarantee, but I still prefer copper as that is what I've always used.
Stainless steel is cheaper and in most cases you get a 10 year guarantee, but I still prefer copper as that is what I've always used.
S
secret squirrel
Don't try and repair it, it'll cost more time and energy and you'll end up replacing it anyway. Copper or stainless, I don't care whatever is on offer!
P
petercj
Copper is thermally superior to stainless steel, and although SS is resistant to corrosion, it's not as malleable as copper, and in some circumstances can crack.
Because of the steep increase in the price of copper of late, a lot of people are pushing SS cylinders, but don’t believe any stories about SS being better, it’s not, it’s just cheaper to make cylinders of SS these days and use the saving to increase profit margins.
A ten-year guarantee sounds good, but does such a warranty cover the labour for replacing a cylinder if it fails? Try getting a straight answer to that question.
The problem with repairing your present cylinder is that the pinhole you can see is likely to be evidence of corrosion that is taking place on the inside, and it’s not really possible to know how extensive it is.
[FONT=&]Done properly, a patch using Araldite will last many years, the problem is the rest of the cylinder is unlikely to. Generic versions of the putty and the adhesive have been used by REME and RE over many years when doing repairs in the field.[/FONT]
M
Mickyplumb
I once did what I thought would be a temporary repair to get a couple of youngsters out of trouble. I bought some plumbers metal, cleaned and fluxes the area up like mad. Six years later, still all okay !
G
Gray0689
If you want it patched drain and solder it
P
petercj
Is there a market for refurbed (patched up) hot water cylinders?
Complete with a full 12 months conditional warranty - leaks being excluded.
P
petercj
If it's an indirect cylinder, the heat transfer properties of the coil will have a bearing on recovery times, which in turn will have a bearing on the OP's gas bill.
SS heat exchangers have been known to crack in the past.
SS will resist movement more than copper, but if movement does occur, it won't handle it well - try bending a piece of SS pipe.
M
Mike Jackson
We have a choice in this area due to the aggressive water. New copper cylinder every 18 months or fit a stainless steel one with a ten year warranty.
As Gray has said, if you really want to patch it, then drain cyl, clean area well & solder it. Just be careful not to lose sight of where the pin hole was. Could last many years if rest of cyl decent.
The scrap value of the old one could be quite high, so would ease the cost of a new one though!
The scrap value of the old one could be quite high, so would ease the cost of a new one though!
P
petercj
Best fit copper cylinders with some quality to them then, and with a decent warranty:-
Gledhill EnviroFoam Direct Vented Copper Cylinders - Gledhill Cylinders
SS is a man-made alloy of various base metals, consequently the resistance to corrosion varies quite widely. The tool grade quality you find in your tool-box is very different from the material that will be used in a 'cheaper to manufacture' SS hot water cylinder. Some of the most expensive SS seen around is the cutlery grade seen in professional quality chef's knives - easily costing between £50 to £70 for a top of the range knife.
Better quality cookware is made from 18/10 SS, which is an indicator of the various metals used and the resistance to corrosion.
Cheaper SS pots and pans, particularly those imported from India, have shown to have a low resistance to corrosion, and will produce corrosive spots when salted water is boiled in them.
The base metal content of SS is optimised for the purpose for which it is used, but the higher the grade, the greater the content of the more expensive base metals, such as nickel, etc.
So basically, saying that a cylinder is made of SS tells you very little about its durability.
Copper hot-water cylinders are produced from cooper-alloy sheet, so again, the quality can vary, but if you go for a product produced by a company with a reputation to protect, then the copper content should be good.
As with many things these days, the profit incentive can lead to a race to the bottom re quality.
[FONT=&]I think you will find that most plumbers who understand the materials they work with will choose copper over SS for their hot water cylinders at home.
Do you by any chance work for British Gas?[/FONT]
M
Mickyplumb
Actually, there's something I've seen, can't remember when, it was called pow r patch, just looked it up on google. Don't know where you'd get it though ?
P
petercj
Bearing in mind the OP's original question, my guess is that he doesn't have much experience of soldering up copper tanks.
If the pin-hole in question represents an isolated spot of corrosion, I reckon he will be in luck. When he puts a flame on it, he will probably find out.
Yes, needs a bit of soldering skill to solder a cylinder - a lot of heat while fluxing also. His choice & risk. If on the top of cylinder it may be okay to fix.
"Duplex" stainless steel is supposed to be a superior alloy to ordinary s.s. A lot of cylinders are made of this & have up to 25year warranty. Duplex has also different grades, but I assume there is only one grade used for plumbing.
P
petercj
Duplex (Austenitic-Ferritic) Stainless Steels- nothing really special about the term.
The four families of stainless steel | Outokumpu
Some 30 years ago Kwick Fit ran a National sales campaign on stainless steel exhausts with life-time guarantees. They were around 4 or 5 times the price of steel ones, but they sold well, and within a year or so most of the exhaust and tyre depots were selling them. All the rage for a short while. Then the whole campaign went bad due to huge numbers of come-backs due to cracking. Within 5 years the sale of steel exhausts was back on track.
Global make high quality chef’s knives (you may have heard of them) they hold their edge just about better than any other quality knife on the market - I’ve got one, and it’s superb. Beats the Henckles and other quality knives I use on holding an edge hands down.
But its strength is also a weakness, i.e. if it’s drop on a hard surface the steel has been taken to such a degree of hardness (ice hardening) that it will most likely break as if was made of glass. They have a reputation for this, and because of this, some people won’t use them. £65 for a knife that breaks when dropped is not everyone’s idea of a good knife.
Stainless steel and copper are two of the more superior metals in daily use. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
There is a reason why copper has been used for hot-water cylinders for so many years, the only reason the trend has changed is because the price of copper has rocketed over the last five years.
Manufacturers want to survive the next 12 months, so a promise of a ten-year warranty is one way of persuading people to buy a product that is cheaper to manufacture although inferior in quality.
Like most warranties, there are terms and conditions, one of which will be proof of purchase, which a lot of people will lose over a ten-year period. One of the factors that saved Kwick-Fit’s bacon.
The next step change for such cylinders will be plastic – probably not too far away.
I’ve got a steam cleaner with a plastic tank that runs at 100c, and it works just fine. No worries about the tank going rusty.
A plastic cylinder with a copper coil would probably be a winning combination.
A more sturdy form of insulation could be used to strengthen the cylinder overall.
Speed-fit connections, and a 20-year warranty combined with a massive marketing campaign that told everyone it was better and cheaper than metal would probably see it selling like hot cakes.
[FONT=&]Such is life in the modern scheme of things – if you throw enough money onto the hands of the marketing magnets they can sell just about anything to just about anybody.[/FONT]
Last edited by a moderator:
G
Guest123
Just a thought, but if the outlets on the tank were temporarily capped, couldn't a pin hole be sealed with Fernox leak sealer and then flushed out afterwards?
M
Mike Jackson
Do you by any chance always talk out of your backside? I've been plumbing for over 30 years (never for BG) and have seen the quality of cylinders decrease due to improved manufacturing techniques allowing thinner walls. The cylinders that I have seen fail have been from reputable manufacturers and and had one fail after 9 months. This was sent back to the manufacturers (Santon I think) and they refused to honour any warranty on the cylinder stating that the failure was due to nitrates in the water. The merchant were very good in this instance and gave me a replacement free of charge.
Before stainless steel cylinders were widely available I was giving people the chance to pay a premium and I would use a stainless steel unvented unit as an open vented cylinder because of the corrosion issues that we have in this area.
My have personal experience of copper and stainless steel cylinders and the problems and benefits of them. I have no need to google comments about knives that have no relevance to the point in hand.
P
petercj
You need to stop drinking that aggressive water Mr Jackson, sounds like it's having a similar effect on you.
If you were as smart as you think you are, you would be buying decent quality cylinders from a reputable manufacturer - as the link I kindly posted for you.
M
Mike Jackson
If Gledhill would supply me with a ten year warranty that they would honour and supply them at the same cost as the ten year guarantee stainless steel cylinders that they supply I would gladly fit them. When I can pick up a stainless steel cylinder with fittings for around £40 less than a copper one I would be a fool to price myself out of work.
Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk
Reply to the thread, titled "Small hole in immersion tank. What's the best way to seal it?" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on Plumbers Forums.
Similar plumbing topics
- Question
We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.
