This months Gas Installer Magazine!

[gassafe]

Just read my new gas installer mag that arrived this morning... One article caught my eye & made me worry!!

Page 07 for anyone who's interested!

A gas engineer fined £2500 & £1000 costs after an inspection by the health & safety guys for sealing the outside flue with expanding foam!!!! That is all!!!! Apparently it exposed the occupants to gas fumes entering back into the property!?

Iv done it a couple times before just for convenience more than anything else. There's also plenty of flues that are not sealed at all I come across on new builds etc!

Also on the same page, 2 landlords fined £720 plus £60 to the victim for not getting dodgy gas appliances checked which made the lady & new born baby suffer carbon monoxide symptoms!!! Seems about unfair that the gas engineer gets shafted, yet the landlords get away scot free almost!!!!!!

 

[Atouchofgas]

Was reading that as well and couldn't believe it. Absolute joke and no deterrent at all

 

[Barry98]

Sounds about right in this day and age in this country , I actually think if dean abott had bowled that ball in England he'd be getting done for manslaughter

 

[Ermintrude]

Hse usually good guys. Labc pretty helpful too. Punk foam with cement over is absolutely fine. Foam isn't uv stable so needs cement over top of it to meet regs

 

[townfanjon]

I always seal flues with sand and cement mix, I have never used foam .HOWEVER, if anybody took me to court over something like that I would give up gas in a breath

 

[gassafe]

Hse usually good guys. Labc pretty helpful too. Punk foam with cement over is absolutely fine. Foam isn't uv stable so needs cement over top of it to meet regs

The boilers all come with a rubber sealing ring anyway, so the foam is covered most the time. Expanding foam on display always looks bad!

 

[Ermintrude]

Sealing ring isn't compliant with building regs. - not the gas side but building regs part A and B I believe

 

[jtsplumbing]

Like others on here I've come across plenty of new builds where flue not sealed, just rubber cover outside / plastic one inside

 

[Reg Man]

Expanding foam? for lazy gits. Its the magistrates (JP'S) that make the final decisions, they are not always in line or as informed as they should be.

 

[lame plumber]

so whats with all the ideals on new builds with just a rubber seal outside and inside, all passed by building regs!!

 

[AWheating]

i would not expanding foam an ideal flue, i furted on one the other day and dented it.

 

[jtsplumbing]

so whats with all the ideals on new builds with just a rubber seal outside and inside, all passed by building regs!!

That's the one's I've come across , Around Newton Abbot, all ideal boilers on new build, flue not sealed

 

[lame plumber]

probably the same company that did the ones in Barnstaple, they are based around dartmoor or oakhampton fm memory

 

[Reg Man]

One incident investigation I went on, the youngster's in the area pulled the flue out of the wall which was sealed by foam, leaving the boiler as a fluless appliance. No self tappers just pushed in.

 

[newcastle phill]

Its a biatch.
Never used foam on anything like that but normally its stickier than dog poop and sets like cement lol.
Now fire grade expanding foam has specification to stop the spread of fire and smoke so obviously it seals very well and would also stop CO.
Seems incredibly harsh
Still rules are rules.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i seen the pics on fb it looks crap TBH

 

[newcastle phill]

A link ?

 

[leakeee]

I had a gas safe inspection the other week, gas safe said that I have to foam the flues. Regardless of what make of boiler

 

[ambrosia]

expanding foam is not a good product to put around a flue as when it expands it can crush the flue, unlikely but certainly possible under right conditions

when they procecute they tend to throw the book at gas engineers as a way of scaring us. Day to day however you can get away with appalling work. Its kind of like medieval law death penalty for most crimes but no police to catch criminals

 

[arran197]

Has anyone seen the Worcester video of the guy fitting a flue with the rubber collar on the outside? It states the collar is all that's required on the outside to seal the flue from the building, so surely the manufacturer instructions supersede the building regs? Needs sealing inside, though I wonder if they say the internal one is sufficient for that too?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

A link ?

it would take so long to link it of this crap lap top i am using i may die of boredom,you can either wait for my new pc to arrive or look at stans fb page gas engineers uk

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

giving it a go

 

[Rickster123]

It does look cack to be fair.

 

[newcastle phill]

It does look cack.

 

[ed209]

In a high rise building you push the flue through the wall from the inside with the sealing collar on and pull it back to make the seal. Its in the MIs

 

[ed209]

I was told a long time ago by Aniston that you shouldn't use mortar as it could corroded flue

 

[ed209]

Ariston, bloody auto correct

 

[ed209]

There's got to more to this story I can't believe you would get it for that

 

[ed209]

I've seen loads sealed, un-sealed, foam, mortar, rock wall, kitchen roll, mastic, carrier bags but whatever was used the sealing collar was usually in place so nothing was going back in

 

[Millsy 82]

I've seen loads sealed, un-sealed, foam, mortar, rock wall, kitchen roll, mastic, carrier bags but whatever was used the sealing collar was usually in place so nothing was going back in

I've seen wire wool used.

 

[Scott_D]

If it's expanded that far inside it may have done the same outside and partially blocked the flue?

 

[combo]

I think Gas Safe just like to be seen as doing something. There's never been so much regulation across all trades...are standards of workmanship higher ??

 

[AWheating]

worcester are the only manufacturer whos instruction/ Tech Bull ive seen saying you can seal externally with the rubber and expanding foam the inside to seal it. you need a six inch hole tho.

what they dont tell you is how to terminate the blow off back to the wall in flats without a ladder or scaff.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

worcester are the only manufacturer whos instruction/ Tech Bull ive seen saying you can seal externally with the rubber and expanding foam the inside to seal it. you need a six inch hole tho.

what they dont tell you is how to terminate the blow off back to the wall in flats without a ladder or scaff.

solder a 22mm cap in 15mm pipe and push through 28mm hole, make good in side.

 

[AWheating]

solder a 22mm cap in 15mm pipe and push through 28mm hole, make good in side.

thats what it says in the worcester instructions, blumin cowboys the WB engineers. 🙂

 

[ed209]

As you probably know you can now buy the ones like you get with the Ideal logic +

 

[CXR100]

how do you receive this mag? I am gsr along with my business partner, I have never received the mag, I don't think he has either, can he contact gas safe so we both get it?

 

[newcastle phill]

They just send it to numbtys.
You must be good.....


.....do you wanna borrow my copy 😱

 

[combo]

When you sign up for GSR they give you the option of having the magazine sent to you via post or you accessing it via the Gas safe website. I opted for the latter but they still send me a copy anyway :smartass:. It's basically a few pages of prosecutions and then adverts....not worth my 400 odd quid registration fee, that's for sure.

 

[billybob150811]

I would like to know more about this one was it an old balanced flue replaced with a fanned flue and foamed ? I for one put the big rosette on the inside go outside fill with foam put weather collar on job done but this is in a 117mm cored hole if their saying I cant do that I,ll just have to go back to sand and cement

 

[newcastle phill]

Does anyone use expansion foam (recessed a bit) and finish with sand cement plug

 

[ed209]

Seems to me GSR and or the manufacturers should make a stand and tell us exactly how it should be done, as it seems a lot of us are unsure if the methods we are currently using are correct

 

[tamz]

I've never used foam and have always hated seeing it round a flue.

You won't find any manu saying it is ok to use foam and it looks like gas safe / HSE agree but as usual there will be more to this story than that.

Sand and cement or plaster inside. Rapid set is about £6 a bag and with 2 bags of sand you can build in 50 flues for a tenner. It sets in 15 minutes. A bag of multi finish is about £4. Open the bag and let it sit for a month or 2 and it will set in 5 minutes (sometimes before you can get it out of the bucket).

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I've never used foam and have always hated seeing it round a flue.

You won't find any manu saying it is ok to use foam and it looks like gas safe / HSE agree but as usual there will be more to this story than that.

Sand and cement or plaster inside. Rapid set is about £6 a bag and with 2 bags of sand you can build in 50 flues for a tenner. It sets in 15 minutes. A bag of multi finish is about £4. Open the bag and let it sit for a month or 2 and it will set in 5 minutes (sometimes before you can get it out of the bucket).

or if your very fast sand in with some old plaster

 

[tamz]

Sometimes it sets so fast i need to take the hammer to the trowel to get it out the bucket while i was mixing it.
A handful of finish in the compo makes it go off in 5 minutes too.