- Thread starter mfgs
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M
Masood
She tries hard and isn't scared to get stuck in but she physically can't lift boilers etc. But give credit where it's due, her response to that is to insist on carrying the toolboxes and so on so she can get stronger.
Oh mate, no. You'd never get any work done LOL...
It's been an eye opener to me. Having a girl apprentice breaks the ice with customers and instantly puts them at ease. However, they all want to chat to her about how lovely it is to see girls getting into trades, so I sometimes end up starting work as I don't want to be rude to the customer by dragging her away.
On the other hand there is one week a month where she is sulky, stroppy and a proper pain in the arris to try and teach....
I know I would! And thats one of the problems. Leaving a young lady in a house with a pervy bloke
T
TBServices
How old is your apprentice Masood? Its the physical strength that concerns me, if they are not physically able to lift a boiler or a 1000x600 k2 rad on their own, then they don't really have the ability to work productively on their own in the future. I will probably interview the girl who's CV I have and see, but I think it would be a disadvantage is some aspects.
M
Masood
Gonna plead the 5th on that one. However it may or may not be significant that I didn't reply to post #101... 😀
T
TBServices
She's definitely a hottie guys. Or at least got a sweet bum. I couldn't do it, I'm distracted enough
M
Masood
She's 20 Matt. Bright and keen but I honestly can't see her installing a boiler or as you say a 1000x600 K2 on her own.
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TBServices
That is my worry. Do you honestly see a future with her working for you if she is not able to carry out those kind of install jobs, or do you have enough maintenance work to potentially keep her busy with? The majority of my work at the moment is install work on sites, and I think a female would be less useful with that sort of work. Saying that I may give her an interview and shes a 16 stone rugby player or something haha.
M
Masood
M
Masood
A lot of my work is servicing, breakdowns, general small stuff. She's not squeamish about unblocking drains although we've not had a properly minging loo since she's been with me! Her pipework is accurate and pretty quick. So I can keep her busy and maybe team her up with someone for the heavier work.
D
Dotty
M
Masood
Hey, doesn't matter where you get the appetite as long as you only eat at home!
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TBServices
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Dotty
E
Ermintrude
My old understudy had an apprentice for a week while his mentor off. He said to me today... Jesus was I that bad? I said course u were . It's learning . He's a ballache for first few months then it gets better !
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TBServices
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Dotty
I couldnt imagine a female crawling through attics with cobwebs hanging out of their hair or under floorboards spiders rats etc.But I do take my hat off to them if they do..brum
M
Masood
Haha she's properly scared of cobwebs! Naturally I send her up into lofts as often as possible..
The guy I just got rid of was petrified of spiders, he used to squeal if he even saw one!!!
I'm a 37 year old plumbing apprentice. I've been with a firm for 5 weeks now working with their chief engineer on installs/maintenance jobs. (I completed my L2 in July).
These 5 weeks have practically been the only real experience I've had (aside from the odd private job) and I've learned tons so far.
He's told me that he thinks I'll do well as I have the right attitiude, I work hard and I'll try and have a go at everything.
I work with him mon-fri and meet him every morning and do not get paid a penny. Some days we work until 7pm depending on what we're doing, but I don't give a pooh! I'm lucky enough to be able to learn from a fantastic engineer.
BUT ... I'm having a meeting with the company owner tomorrow to see where things go from here. Nothing was really set in stone when I approached his company to begin with and it's getting to the point where I can't afford not to earn any money.
So a little advice would be great..
What would a reasonable wage be to ask for? Am I being an ar5e asking to be paid?
The engineer I work with says he thinks the owner should chuck me in the deep end and let me out on my own - he also said that if I ever get stuck I can call him. I am 50% with him and 50% crapping myself and do not feel ready - but maybe this is just my lack of confidence talking.
I also do not want to stop learning from him so I was thinking about suggesting going out on my own for maybe 2-3 days a week doing simple jobs/maintenance (taps, toilets, rads etc) and the rest going out with the engineer.
What do you think?
P.S I'm also a bit creeped out by spiders but I venture in dark places anyway - wearing my hoodie & gloves hahahaha :lol:
These 5 weeks have practically been the only real experience I've had (aside from the odd private job) and I've learned tons so far.
He's told me that he thinks I'll do well as I have the right attitiude, I work hard and I'll try and have a go at everything.
I work with him mon-fri and meet him every morning and do not get paid a penny. Some days we work until 7pm depending on what we're doing, but I don't give a pooh! I'm lucky enough to be able to learn from a fantastic engineer.
BUT ... I'm having a meeting with the company owner tomorrow to see where things go from here. Nothing was really set in stone when I approached his company to begin with and it's getting to the point where I can't afford not to earn any money.
So a little advice would be great..
What would a reasonable wage be to ask for? Am I being an ar5e asking to be paid?
The engineer I work with says he thinks the owner should chuck me in the deep end and let me out on my own - he also said that if I ever get stuck I can call him. I am 50% with him and 50% crapping myself and do not feel ready - but maybe this is just my lack of confidence talking.
I also do not want to stop learning from him so I was thinking about suggesting going out on my own for maybe 2-3 days a week doing simple jobs/maintenance (taps, toilets, rads etc) and the rest going out with the engineer.
What do you think?
P.S I'm also a bit creeped out by spiders but I venture in dark places anyway - wearing my hoodie & gloves hahahaha :lol:
The chances are that they have already decided what the rate will be so the idea is to get them to play their cards first so have some words ready so your not the one asking.
One thing I would do though is to come out out of the meeting knowing what they expect of you going forwards.
One thing I would do though is to come out out of the meeting knowing what they expect of you going forwards.
Sounds like a plan!! I guess I'll figure out what my bare minimum is to scrape by in terms of money and see if their figure falls along the same lines. If not I'll discuss it with him and see what he says. And having the expectation convo is definitely a great idea, for both of us really. At the end of the day as much as he's doing me a favour in terms of training, he's also gaining an extra pair of hands 😉 even if it is tidying up and doing small jobs.
Just stay humble jay after all he is doing more for you than you for him at this stage, hope you gonna come back and tell us how it went.
Very true indeed. Humility is my first, middle and last name rpm. Actually my middle name is Unconfident lol but I'll get there in the end.. I just want to be the best plumber I can be for me and my family (just found out I'm gonna be a dad!!) eek!
Yeah will do.. Fingers crossed. Thanks for the advice mate, much appreciated 🙂
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Rickster123
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Masood
NEVER leave a pipe uncapped FFS! Open ends are asking for trouble. 😀
Many congratulations!
Ok so I just had the meeting with the owner of the firm and I'm on board on an apprentice wage (£2.80ph) *hurrah*
I'll be using my own van for now while I prove myself and he's also going to get me through my gas qualifications to become gas safe.
I'll start out doing 2-3 days a week on my own doing simple jobs and the rest of the time learning by shadowing other engineers.
I'm really pleased and also a bit nervous as I'm out on my own tomorrow *eek* but I'm looking forward to the challenge!!
I'll be using my own van for now while I prove myself and he's also going to get me through my gas qualifications to become gas safe.
I'll start out doing 2-3 days a week on my own doing simple jobs and the rest of the time learning by shadowing other engineers.
I'm really pleased and also a bit nervous as I'm out on my own tomorrow *eek* but I'm looking forward to the challenge!!
M
Masood
Congratulations on getting the job but I think you could have tried negotiating a dual rate - maybe national minimum wage for the days you're out on your own, and apprentice wage for the time you're shadowing.
Otherwise your solo days will actually cost you to go to work when you factor in diesel, servicing, road tax etc.
Cheers mate.. He's going to pay for my diesel and parking but yeah Maybe I could have. I believe though using my van is only for the short term. I'll just have to play it by ear and see how it goes. I can always speak to him if things are not balancing correctly.
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Masood
Well if he's paying your diesel then it's not too bad in the short term. Keep a log of what jobs you've done, skills acquired, problems encountered and solved, times you've taken the initiative, times you've won extra work for him. Use that record to negotiate better terms in the future. Any decent boss will be happy to reward a good worker but you need to prove that you're doing something for him.
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Ray Stafford
I agree with Adam.
If you're good enough to work solo, then you are good enough to be paid for it. Apprentice rate is supposed to reflect the fact that apprentices don't contribute much. And they certainly don't supply their own van and tools. I don't want to knock you, because its hard enough to get a start in this game, but I also think your new boss is taking the proverbial.
If you are in the first year of your apprenticeship then the minimum wage is £2.73, after the first year of you are over 19 then you need to go on to the minimum wage for your age.
So are you actually at college enrolled on an apprenticeship? You said you have your level 2 already, was that from an apprenticeship or just a full time college course?
*sigh* I'm not enrolled onto college, i finished my L2 technical cert in July. I got the L2 on a course but didn't shadow anyone as part of the course.
Then he cant legally pay you under £6.50 an hour I think. If you aren't enrolled on an apprenticeship scheme then he cant be paying you as an apprentice.
Really? :/ I'm going to just have to suffer it for a while I think. It's an opportunity to learn which I'm not getting elsewhere right now, plus at some point soon I'll get to do my gas as well. So it kind evens itself out a little...
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Ray Stafford
I think you are right. You can't just call someone an apprentice to justify low pay - it must be a recognised apprenticeship. Otherwise, national minimum wage applies.
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R.Oak
Unlikely to be some time soon i would have thought. He will probably want you get some experience if general plumbing under your belt first.
Yeah I thought that, but he rang a course provider while I was with him about booking me on the course. I'll just see what happens. I'm focussing on now and learning and doing my best at what jobs he gives me first. I'll evaluate the pay etc later on down the line.
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R.Oak
thats good then, congrats on the job, and on the baby too. Hope everything works out well.
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Masood
We are so negative on here sometimes it's painful. Yes, Jay is being held over a barrel. Yes he's being shafted. Yes, it's illegal to pay apprentice rate unless as part of a formal apprenticeship agreement. BUT - someone has given the man a chance, and is paying him SOMETHING at least. Better than those poor sods offering to work for free, no? Would we be happier if Jay had NO job? Sure we'd have the moral high ground that we'd stopped him being exploited but you can't eat morals.
Best of luck Jay. For what it's worth I'd have done the same as you (did something similar in fact). Learn, absorb, progress and demonstrate to your boss that you're a valuable asset. The financial rewards will come. Do suggest, as soon as you are earning him money on your solo days, that he pay you more on those days.
Best of luck Jay. For what it's worth I'd have done the same as you (did something similar in fact). Learn, absorb, progress and demonstrate to your boss that you're a valuable asset. The financial rewards will come. Do suggest, as soon as you are earning him money on your solo days, that he pay you more on those days.
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R
Rickster123
Indeed, sir! I know I'm not getting the best deal in the world in terms of pay, but the positives outweigh the negatives by far in terms of experience and learning 🙂 so I'm a happy chap...
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Ray Stafford
I see where you are coming from Mas, but I don't see why I can't approve of Jay's get-up-and-go spirit, whilst simultaneously disapproving of an employer who will send him out solo on £2.65 per hour.
Yes, he may be "giving him a chance". The same would apply if I offered a warehouse job at the same rate - or crop picking, or working in a care home.
I didn't agree with the introduction of the minimum wage for reasons I won't bore everyone with, but once you have it, you should properly enforce it. Otherwise honest, law-abiding firms are put at a competitive disadvantage against dishonest firms who are allowed to break the law. And that can't be right.
I was today working with a 17 year old 1st year apprentice (4 weeks in) he is on £3.30 per hour I thought that was a good rate approx. £130 per week..brum
M
Masood
I'm not disagreeing with you Ray - in my first post on the matter I suggested that Jay should have negotiated a dual pay rate. I agree totally that he is being taken advantage of. But being a pragmatist, I feel that 40 hours at £2.80 whilst gaining experience and confidence is much better than sitting on the dole insisting on his fair rate of pay.
im with ray on this the guy can obviously do some of the work or they wouldnt suggest sending hgim out alone should definitely be getting min wage
like ray i still dont belive there should be a minimum wage but when you hear of bosses who exploit you can see the need for it
this is probably the same boss who send out untrained guys to work on 35mm mains and then moans when it goes wrong
like ray i still dont belive there should be a minimum wage but when you hear of bosses who exploit you can see the need for it
this is probably the same boss who send out untrained guys to work on 35mm mains and then moans when it goes wrong
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Ray Stafford
I think that its one of those things which one can agree with at the personal level, whilst deploring at the community level.
When you lose a job on price because Jay's new boss has gone in at a cut throat price based on his cheap labour... well, you know what I am saying.
I don't think we are disagreeing, just taking two sides of the same coin.
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Ray Stafford
Should be, but isn't. Our glorious government has seen fit to decree that some contracts may not be made - including those for labour below a certain rate per hour. (there are loads of other prohibitions on contracts otherwise freely entered into - try enforcing a gambling debt in the courts, or indeed a contract involving drugs, prostitution, indenture or a whole range of other things).
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Masood
Agree totally. In principle I deplore what Jay's boss is doing. In this specific instance I'm very happy for Jay. I somehow get the feeling that Jay's boss won't be charging any less for his services despite paying him a pittance.
One would assume that to avoid this coming to the attention of HMRC that he will be paid in cash as well? If his boss is paying him through bank transfer and declaring his wage to HMRC properly then he is going to end up in the poo over this.
I cannot believe the boss has the total cheek to pay less than £3 per hour and get him to use his own van to be honest (even if diesel is included). It is completely taking advantage imo.
I absolutely hate people who don't follow the law and run their businesses illegally, undercutting all those of us who are honest decent people. I would happily shop someone if I heard they were doing this to be honest.
I actually feel very sorry for Jay to be honest as he is being taken advantage of massively and clearly can't get a better offer. Jay, I hope you stab the ******* in the back and go off and work on your own as soon as you feel ready to.
My apprentices are paid very well and looked after on the basis that happy staff are productive staff and are much less likely to be poached by competitors (they do still get the odd bollocking when they muck up but that's life). Employing people is a 2 way business and if they feel respected they tend to be loyal to you (well most people do). Shaft them like this and they will repay the favour over time.
I cannot believe the boss has the total cheek to pay less than £3 per hour and get him to use his own van to be honest (even if diesel is included). It is completely taking advantage imo.
I absolutely hate people who don't follow the law and run their businesses illegally, undercutting all those of us who are honest decent people. I would happily shop someone if I heard they were doing this to be honest.
I actually feel very sorry for Jay to be honest as he is being taken advantage of massively and clearly can't get a better offer. Jay, I hope you stab the ******* in the back and go off and work on your own as soon as you feel ready to.
My apprentices are paid very well and looked after on the basis that happy staff are productive staff and are much less likely to be poached by competitors (they do still get the odd bollocking when they muck up but that's life). Employing people is a 2 way business and if they feel respected they tend to be loyal to you (well most people do). Shaft them like this and they will repay the favour over time.
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To be honest, at this moment in time I'm just grateful for the experience. i did 5 weeks unpaid so at least now i'm getting some pennies in the pocket and I get to do some jobs on my own to help build my confidence a little - as far as I'm aware it's paid legitimately as I was asked for my NI number and bank details. But I totally see your point, and that of everybody else. But what can I do? It's hard to learn, gain experience and earn money when you're new to the trade.
Jay careful 'the gas' isnt the proverbial carrot on the stick, that you work you ******** off for and never taste; I felt like that was the case in my previous job, the firm came through for me in the end though and sadly went bust just weeks after.
In all fairness I found really tough to get into this industry, and I would have also jumped straight in the deep end for an opportunity similar to yours. Infact I probably would have worked for free.
Good luck
In all fairness I found really tough to get into this industry, and I would have also jumped straight in the deep end for an opportunity similar to yours. Infact I probably would have worked for free.
Good luck
I thought the same thing when the 'call' was made - but I know he's put others through to get their gas so I'm looking on the positive and telling myself I'm no different. I'm not allowing myself to hold on to the hope though - I'll believe it when I see it. And if it doesn't happen I still get to gain the experience I'm looking for so it's a win for me and for him. Plus, I'm on the bottom rung of the plumbing ladder so my main concern right now is getting my hands dirty with that - I'll worry about the gas later on 😉
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