Torbeck valve in Cistern is vibrating after filling...

[Timbo 2021]

Please can someone suggest a fix for this:

I recently fitted a boiling water tap which also meant fitting a whole-house pressure pump (house is all gravity fed as we have a well supply). Initially everything worked fine.

Now, 6 months later the toilet has started vibrating, it's coming from the Torbeck fill valve, a slightest touch to the float will stop it.

I've changed the washer, the vibration changed a little bit but it's not fixed the problem.

It sits there, vibrating at about 5 beats per second, occasionally enough water has come through that the pump starts up for 5 seconds and pressurises the pipe causing another thump and then the oscillation starts again...

It seems weather dependent...probably temperature slightly affecting the flexibility of the rubber washer.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

 

[snowhead]

Has the Torbeck valve got a flow restrictor in the inlet now it's working on mains high(er) pressure?

 

[Timbo 2021]

Has the Torbeck valve got a flow restrictor in the inlet now it's working on mains high(er) pressure?

Has the Torbeck valve got a flow restrictor in the inlet now it's working on mains high(er) pressure?

I guess not as I've not fitted one, not sure what that even looks like?

I have tried restricting the flow into the cistern by almost closing the ball valve isolator but the vibration was still evident.

 

[exedon2]

I would do away with torbeck valve (temperamental and fragile) fit a fluidmaster and move on!

 

[Timbo 2021]

I would do away with torbeck valve (temperamental and fragile) fit a fluidmaster and move on!

Short clip of the offending valve (if the attachment is allowed)..
Turn up the volume you can hear the vibration.

I can't find a Fluidmaster that would fit.

The cistern is part of a Closomat disabled-access loo

 

[Ric2013]

The problem is it's dripping? It should drip when filling, but should stop just before it stops filling. Clutching at straws, but some suggestions:

Torbeck valves work well when the fill is fast, not so well when the water level is reached slowly due to a slow fill rate, for some reason. And, if the flush valve is letting by at all, the Torbeck may not be happy refilling the small amount lost.

Under the float arm is another small bit of rubber with a weep hole. Check the weep hole is clear, and perhaps try turning over the rubber bit. You could, of course, fit a new Torbeck if that's what fits (they aren't expensive), but unlikely to be needed. Normally a new washer (which you've fitted) and a thorough clean works miracles.

Also, equlibrium valves do not really like variations in pressure. May be worth fitting a single or double check valve before the Torbeck to avoid the pressure dropping?

 

[Timbo 2021]

The problem is it's dripping? It should drip when filling, but should stop just before it stops filling. Clutching at straws, but some suggestions:

Torbeck valves work well when the fill is fast, not so well when the water level is reached slowly due to a slow fill rate, for some reason. And, if the flush valve is letting by at all, the Torbeck may not be happy refilling the small amount lost.

Under the float arm is another small bit of rubber with a weep hole. Check the weep hole is clear, and perhaps try turning over the rubber bit. You could, of course, fit a new Torbeck if that's what fits (they aren't expensive), but unlikely to be needed. Normally a new washer (which you've fitted) and a thorough clean works miracles.

Also, equlibrium valves do not really like variations in pressure. May be worth fitting a single or double check valve before the Torbeck to avoid the pressure dropping?

Thanks, the drip is just because of the vibration in the Torbeck valve.....if I gently touch the lever arm, the vibration stops and so does the dripping.

I've dismantled and cleaned it all, incl. the weep hole, can't see anything wrong, no scale/debris.

Having changed the washer and not fixed it, I loathed to by a new valve of the same type.

It's such a simple mechanical thing, how can it be so frustrating! 🙂

 

[Chuck]

Having changed the washer and not fixed it, I loathed to by a new valve of the same type.

If it worked okay for years and failed 6 months after you fitted your pump I'd say it's just dying of old age. (My theory is that over time the body of these valves – being made of plastic – undergoes plastic deformation and distorts slightly, which causes them to start acting up. The higher the pressure, the shorter the life span. But I may be wrong . . .)

If you don't have space for a Fluidmaster then you're SOL, just buy and fit a like-for-like replacement.

 

[Ric2013]

All I can say is that in my own home I have Torbeck valves and they work, so either there is an inconspicuous fault or it's a setup/pressure issue. The Armitage Shanks ones are worse, when you discover a new washer costs £7.50 and you need one every 4 years.

If you refuse to spend £6-odd in Screwfix on a like-for-like replacement, how about an old-fashioned Part 2 or Part 3 ballcock, if you can get it to fit? But do try turning over the rubber thing first by the weep hole, as it's the blocking of the weep hole by that rubber bit that creates the pressure that shuts the valve.

And WHAT is the yoghourt pot for?

 

[Timbo 2021]

And WHAT is the yoghourt pot for?

🙂 I reckoned that the oscillation must result from the interaction of the rubber washer elasticity, water density and lever arm length... so tried to change it a bit. It didn't affect the problem at all.

I'm going to Screwfix now.

Thanks for the all the comments/advice.

 

[Ric2013]

Good thinking on the yoghourt pot, but it's an equilibrium valve, so the ballcock murmuration hum that can result from the bouncing of the water and washer fighting the mains pressure cannot happen with this kind of valve.

What happens with this kind of valve is that the float arm closes that small weep hole under it's 'armpit', the weep hole stops dripping, pressure builds up in the equilibrium chamber, and eventually the water pressure itself makes the main washer shut off the water flow.

 

[Ben-gee]

You probably now need to fit the flow restrictor as mention earlier, because you have gone from low to high pressure.

It looks like a little plastic corkscrew and it fits into the valve itself, inside the threaded section which you connect the water to. There should also be a plastic comb filter which attached to this corkscrew.

 

[Ric2013]

Agree, but my experience is lack of restrictor tends to result in noise and excessive flow and spray during filling, not non functionality. However, you're dead right in that the new valve will have restrictor options included and he may as well use them.

You probably now need to fit the flow restrictor as mention earlier, because you have gone from low to high pressure.

It looks like a little plastic corkscrew and it fits into the valve itself, inside the threaded section which you connect the water to. There should also be a plastic comb filter which attached to this corkscrew.

 

[Timbo 2021]

Agree, but my experience is lack of restrictor tends to result in noise and excessive flow and spray during filling, not non functionality. However, you're dead right in that the new valve will have restrictor options included and he may as well use them.

Update -completely fixed by replacement Thomas Dudley valve from Screwfix.

So even though everything I found online about misbehaving Torbeck valves just says change the washer, there is something else that goes wrong with them too.

Plastic wear or age related distortion causes bad behavior in Torbeck valves.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Ric2013]

Before you 'hang' Torbeck, let's see if that new valve lasts as long as your old Torbeck did. Thanks for coming back to us though, update in 6 years' time? 😉