Train 4 Trade Skills

[Beth]

Re: train4 trade skills new starter

Originally Posted by Beth

Hi, I'm new to these forums,...............

HOW AND WHY DID YOU FIND THIS PARTICULAR FORUM?
IS THIS A GENUINE ENTRY AND A TRUE ACCOUNT OF EVENTS OR ARE YOU JUST TRYING TO PUT THE FRIGHTENER ON T4TS + Apprenticeship Training Limited STUDENTS, FOR YOUR OWN PERVERSE REASONS? (rival course student, collage apprentice, old school plumbing & heating engineer)

........I was also heavily pressurised into signing up for the course there and then and paying the £100 admin/registration fee straight away, without being given the chance to think about it for a little while and assess my finances (I am currently unemployed).

THAT £100 ADMIN FEE WAS PROBABLY THE REPS COMMISION. SO DID YOU PAY IT OR NOT? IT'S UNCLEAR.

.........I was basically told no and that my place would be offered to someone else.

VERY POOR SALES TACTIC I AGGREE AND I BELIEVE A TOTALLY FALSE STATEMENT.
AS FAR AS I AM AWARE, THERE ARE NO LIMITS TO THE NUMBER OF COURSE PLACES; WHAT IS IT, STANDING ROOM ONLY FOR PLUMBING STUDENTS IN THE UK?

.......5 minutes later my mum came out to me in the garden and told me that the T4TS rep had said that plumbing would be my only opportunity to make a career for myself and if I didn't sign up for it I'd never make anything of my life, amongst various other personal insults,

HOW OLD ARE YOU?

YOU DON'T SAY WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE BETWEEN THE AGES OR 16 TO 24, IN WHICH CASE YOU COULD STILL MAKE A CAREER FOR YOURSELF BY STUDYING PLUMBING AT YOUR LOCAL COLLAGE. YOUR GONNA NEED ENOUGH GCSE's TO EVEN GET ON THE COURSE IN THE FIRST PLACE THOUGH, AND BESIDES THE ONE DAY A WEEK TRAINING YOU WILL GET (during term times, closed for half terms, summer, easter, etc) YOU WILL HAVE TO FIND A LOW PAID JOB WITH A PLUMBING COMPANY FOR ON THE JOB TRAINING, IF THEY ARE TAKING ANY APPRENTICES ON.

Since this visit, we've done research about the company, and found out that they've been reported to Watchdog for their tactics and about their finance agreements, and there was a government petition set up to put them out of business regarding their bullying tactics.

CAN I SEE THE RESULTS OF YOUR RESEARCH?

WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS INFO FROM, ON HERE FROM ANY NUMBER OF THE OTHER SCARE MONGERS? PEOPLE LIE YOU KNOW.

I THINK YOU WILL FIND IT WAS SKILLSTRAIN SELLING OUT OF DATE I.T. COURSES THAT WAS BEEING INVESTIGATED BY WATCHDOG.

I SAW THE REPORT ABOUT Mr. Jan Telensky THE CZECH FOUNDER OF THE HOME STUDY COURSES IN MICROSOFT OFFICE, WEB MASTERS ETC. HOW HE WENT FROM SLEEP ON THE STREETS, TO BEING PHOTOGRAPHED OUTSIDE NUMBER 10 DOWNING STREET SHAKING HANDS WITH THE PRIME MINISTER, TO FLOGGING DODGY HOME STUDY I.T. COURSE, THAT CLAIMED TO BE ACCREDITED BY CISCO SYSTEM AND MICROSOFT AND TURNED OUT TO BE OUT OF DATE.

[DLMURL="http://www.1888pressrelease.com/skillstrain-boss-joins-british-pm-in-honouring-kids-pr-11k274olk.html"]SkillsTrain Boss Joins British Pm In Honouring Kids by Skillstrain/mary Stuart-miller[/DLMURL]

to answer your questions:

I found this forum on google, it came up in a search about T4TS. this is a genuine entry, i have nothing to gain from "trying to put the frightener" on T4TS or anyone connected to it, I just don't want other people to experience the same bullying and rudeness from them as i did.

i didn't pay the £100 fee no, i refused to. i never sign for, or pay for anything without reading into the terms and conditions first, or being given a chance to weigh up my options and think about things, an option which T4TS didn't seem to like very much.

I'm nearly 26, and am exploring other avenues into becoming a plumber, but T4TS and other courses like it are being given a very wide berth from now on.

If you google Train 4 Trade Skills and search the results you will see everything I found, some of the results of my search can even be found on this forum. I am aware that people lie on the internet, however going on my personal experience of the company, it doesn't entirely surprise me that other people have also experienced problems and bullying tactics from this company. there is a difference between "Hard Sell" tactics, and bullying and downright rudeness, which is what I experienced.

 

[graythedon]

Re: train 4 trade skills scam

I dont know what to say ?

i recentley put a post up asking people to coment on the plumbing trade,
if we as a colective can disprove the statments the training companys make we can then get out of our contracts and cancel our courses, this would mean not having to pay the monthly £110 but it dosnt mean we can get our money back which we have paid already.

so the things we have to prove are

• 30 000 to 70 000 job prospects
• promise of plumbing trade growth
• certificates which are recognised by employers or the trade

i think you guys get the picture, most of these points iv found out above but i still cant disprove that the trade is shrinking instead of growing.
my post has had about 120 views and only 6 replys looks like the plumbing comunity dosnt want to tell us exactly what happening.

have a look at the thread and write a coment and if you know of people that have finished courses and cant get work get them to write a coment and what their experiance has been like while doing the course and if they got work after the course.

we going to need a lot of people and a lot of replys before we can take this further and win our money back and the only way to do it is to stick together.

this is the thread.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/5792-plumbing-trade-slowing-down-growing.html

let me know what you think

 

[savage369]

T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Hi everyone,
My name is Peter, I was stuck in a dull 9-5 job with no career prospects when I recieved a phone call in regards to T4TS training. Literally after showing an interest a salesman called the next day!
He made the training programme sound so brilliant, so I signed up...

Now, after completing the training, set to commence my first practical training, I recieve a letter from T4TS stating that I cannot start my training till I have paid £1000 off the course... this will not be for another 5 months, considering the saleman said that I could be earning a plumbers wage within 10 months I am obviously somewhat dis-heartened.

Then I started to think of all the false information I was fed just so as he could recieve his commission, I understand everyone has to earn a wage but I have been ripped off I think...

How can I break free from this company and the £3500 loan contract tied within it???

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[newbie1]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

i am afraid you are not the first and think you will find this is a very airtight contract
as the loan i believe is not actually with them so unless you have access to a free legal advisor you are between a rock and a hard place
sorry cant offer you any more than that

 

[REDSAW]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

welcome to the forum

its a fact to what newbie says.

youve been caught in the ofside trap of these salesmen.

they are well versed and you could waste your time trying to get out of it.
my b-in law signed with them and managed to get out of the contract, but he did so by declaring bancrupcy?.

the best thing to do is to follow it through all the way, at least you will get what you pay for as it is not a bad centre to train at.

curiocity, what did the rep tell you is a plumbers wage?.

 

[andymc]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Im enjoying it so far, but im sticking through until the end, it'll take a few years to get through by most people, but training at centre is quality.

 

[stecunners]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

im doing the t4ts at the moment,getting time to do the practicals is my problem.Been on the course for a year but only managed the first two weeks at featherstone..Will be april before i can do the next fortnight.looking forward to it,heating and part p electrical..Got my water regs card, but it doesnt seem much for one years study..but at least i have a job and can complete the course no matter how long it lasts...

 

[lewis]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

hi all, my other half signed up for t4ts in oct 08.
I'm a bit concered that we are paying £5770 for a plumbing course (£135 per month over 42mnths) and others have said they are paying in the region of £3000-£4000.
are there different types of plumbing course?
Anyway after paying for a year we stopped our direct debt yesterday as we also feel we were pushed into this course. the course advisor (salesman) turned up we were just expecting a bit of advise but we were not in anyway prepared for the hard sales pitch we got.
We are a young family with two small children we dont have alot of money.
This salesman started saying how our lives would be like this forever and this was our final chance to do something to make life easier. HE ASKED US TO CONVINCE HIM WE WERE SUITABLE FOR OUR PLACE ON THE Course, and that Places were limited and if we didnt take this place he would offer it to someone else. It felt like he was not going to leave unless we signed up.
Anyway we believed him like you do in the moment and also for the next few weeks as he got us hyped up for it.
A year on and the course is not anything like he promised. All the things others have said about. Books being wrong, training centres to far away.
needless to say we never heard from him or t4ts again.

I contacted a soliciter who advised us to contact the office of fair trading as they do take an interest in complaints about distance learning.
He also said to join forces with others who feel the same and involvment from oft may help in negotiations to try and end the contract.
also watchdog has featured t4ts for similar reasons.

so anyone who wants to join forces and send letters or emails of complaint to oft about how they have been mislead or pressured into these courses this would be a great help to me and each of us who feel the same. thanks

 

[joe brown]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

HE ASKED US TO CONVINCE HIM WE WERE SUITABLE FOR OUR PLACE ON THE Course, and that Places were limited and if we didnt take this place he would offer it to someone else. It felt like he was not going to leave unless we signed up.

Sounds typical, I had the exact same when i enquired about a comperteach couse, All he wanted was his commision. He insisted we paid £300 there and then and was even demanding he drove us to a cash machine. he said we dont take everyone on and made it feel like an interview. Reverse phsycology i think. Anyway i told him straight not a chance!!

Im currently at college now doing plumbing and heating 6129 city and guilds , It cost me £700 .

I could of got it for £135 if i had no other qualifications under the goverments new train to gain. Because i already had an nvq i had to pay the full rate.

I was on the college waiting list for 3 and a half years though.Im still on another waiting list.

The fact of the matter is plumbing is nothing like what we all expect when we first get involved from what i have now learnt.

Its a hard trade to get into. You will never walk into work after completeing your course and you will be lucky to earn £65,000 after the first 4 years let alone the first year.

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Re: train 4 trade skills scam

I dont know what to say ?

i recentley put a post up asking people to coment on the plumbing trade,
if we as a colective can disprove the statments the training companys make we can then get out of our contracts and cancel our courses, this would mean not having to pay the monthly £110 but it dosnt mean we can get our money back which we have paid already.

so the things we have to prove are

• 30 000 to 70 000 job prospects
• promise of plumbing trade growth
• certificates which are recognised by employers or the trade

i think you guys get the picture, most of these points iv found out above but i still cant disprove that the trade is shrinking instead of growing.
my post has had about 120 views and only 6 replys looks like the plumbing comunity dosnt want to tell us exactly what happening.

have a look at the thread and write a coment and if you know of people that have finished courses and cant get work get them to write a coment and what their experiance has been like while doing the course and if they got work after the course.

we going to need a lot of people and a lot of replys before we can take this further and win our money back and the only way to do it is to stick together.

this is the thread.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/5792-plumbing-trade-slowing-down-growing.html

let me know what you think

No thanks, I'm more than happy to complete the the course I am paying for. Otherwise what would be the point?
Would you buy a new car and leave it on your drive way, never driving it because someone told you it was a ****e model?
Would you go for a meal at that new asian place, order your meal then leave when it arrives, having paid for it on the way out without touching it because you were affraid it may include dog, snake, Rat or something else you wouldn't want to try?
Would you buy a new carpet then leave it rolled up on the stairs for two years because you can't be ar*ed to fit the underlay and gripper?

ATL training is the dogs watsits and the course work sent by T4TS is up to date and the same as that for part time, full time, college , apprentice and day release.
C&G 6129 Tech Cert in Plumbing level 2 and level 3 NVQ level 2 and level 3. Unvented hot water Cert Bpec WRAS water regulations and a CSCS card. Now if after all that you still can't find a plumbing firm to employ you go self employed and get some experience.

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Its a hard trade to get into. You will never walk into work after completeing your course and you will be lucky to earn £65,000 after the first 4 years let alone the first year.

That's ok, you won't have to register for VAT then.

 

[stecunners]

hi,,i have been doing the course for over a year, been on 1 practical,and got to tma 29...i have wrote to T4TS and told them i am cancelling the course....i was lied to by the rep.

he said............

i will be working as a plumber in 10 months........LIE
I will receive a (free) tool kit...........................LIE
the practical side is a couple of weeks not six....LIE
there is a shortage of plumbers in the uk...........LIE
i will walk into a job when i complete the course.LIE
there is a training centre in glasgow.................LIE
The virtual reality software is fantastic.............LIE

I know the glasgow thing doesnt affect me,but there were a lot of scottish guys at the training centre who were well p*ssed off,but how else would they get scottish guys to sign up.

The practicals cant start until you have paid so much off the fees,so how am i supposed to complete the course in 10 months.
The qualifications you end up with dont really add up to much,i found this out when ringing a few local plumbing companys,,they want years on the job not a piece of paper with city and guilds on it.......

the virtual house is crap, i spent ages trying to finish the first one and kept failing because i hadnt put the lid back on the cwsc,turns out its a software glitch and i had to restart and do it all over again....

So i have made up my mind to end it now rather than keep forking out £135 a month for nothing much in the end....
i believe that when you sign the contract it is legally binding,but if the rep would have told less lies it wouldnt have sounded so promising and i wouldnt have signed up in the first place...

 

[Woot]

I foolishly signed up to a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited. I paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. The salesman said I would be able to train at an ATL centre in Bristol but when I phoned ATL they said they did not have one there. After studying the small print and finding out they have been investigated by BBC Watchdog and Inside Out under their SkillsTrain name I decided to cancel within the legal "cooling off" period. I have canceled the loan with BPF sucessfully, but have not had any adequate response from T4TS after two weeks despite canceling the course within 3 days by recorded mail with follow up letters by recorded and special delivery. I believe I am covered by The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumers Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Train4TradeSkills just rudely dismiss me when I phone them, and will not reply to any of my letters sent by recorded delivery.

 

[REDSAW]

hi,,i have been doing the course for over a year, been on 1 practical,and got to tma 29...i have wrote to T4TS and told them i am cancelling the course....i was lied to by the rep.

he said............

i will be working as a plumber in 10 months........LIE
I will receive a (free) tool kit...........................LIE
the practical side is a couple of weeks not six....LIE
there is a shortage of plumbers in the uk...........LIE
i will walk into a job when i complete the course.LIE
there is a training centre in glasgow.................LIE
The virtual reality software is fantastic.............LIE

I know the glasgow thing doesnt affect me,but there were a lot of scottish guys at the training centre who were well p*ssed off,but how else would they get scottish guys to sign up.

The practicals cant start until you have paid so much off the fees,so how am i supposed to complete the course in 10 months.
The qualifications you end up with dont really add up to much,i found this out when ringing a few local plumbing companys,,they want years on the job not a piece of paper with city and guilds on it.......

the virtual house is crap, i spent ages trying to finish the first one and kept failing because i hadnt put the lid back on the cwsc,turns out its a software glitch and i had to restart and do it all over again....

So i have made up my mind to end it now rather than keep forking out £135 a month for nothing much in the end....
i believe that when you sign the contract it is legally binding,but if the rep would have told less lies it wouldnt have sounded so promising and i wouldnt have signed up in the first place...

so whats the problem?.
is it not for you, or are you struggling to get the grasp of things?.
i have not got anything to do with these companies, but i do know that they can be done in 6 months whilst in a job.
i suppose they told you you will earn £70,0000 a year too, delivered by 50 virgins on your birthday each year, like all sales men from all courses do?.
truth is after one year on the course, your cooling of period has well expired me thinks.
all you have done is give them a get out of 'training you' clause, by telling them to stuff it whilst they keep all the money that you have paid. yes, they allready have it, as it is the bank you now owe. and by people i know who have tried this approch, well, they are still paying monthly.
my advice is to stick at it, hit it hard and get it done. either way to do or not to do, at the end of the day it was your choice.

I foolishly signed up to a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited. I paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. The salesman said I would be able to train at an ATL centre in Bristol but when I phoned ATL they said they did not have one there. After studying the small print and finding out they have been investigated by BBC Watchdog and Inside Out under their SkillsTrain name I decided to cancel within the legal "cooling off" period. I have canceled the loan with BPF sucessfully, but have not had any adequate response from T4TS after two weeks despite canceling the course within 3 days by recorded mail with follow up letters by recorded and special delivery. I believe I am covered by The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumers Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Train4TradeSkills just rudely dismiss me when I phone them, and will not reply to any of my letters sent by recorded delivery.

don't quite understand what you are saying?.
are you complaining about saving £5,750 or loosing £100????????????
personally i think the press have put the willies up you, as far as i know t4tskills is no worse nor no better than any other training provider out there.
so based on that i take it you wont be looking at getting into plumbing then?.
what will you be looking at doing?.

 

[REDSAW]

then i whould take the loss of £100 on the chin, you will save that in transport anyhow providing thats all it will cost you. good luck.

 

[Woot]

don't quite understand what you are saying?.
are you complaining about saving £5,750 or loosing £100????????????
personally i think the press have put the willies up you, as far as i know t4tskills is no worse nor no better than any other training provider out there.
so based on that i take it you wont be looking at getting into plumbing then?.
what will you be looking at doing?.

The main problem was the salesman lying, saying I could do training in Bristol, when in fact their training centres are as far away as Leeds. If I knew that I would not have signed. I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.

then i whould take the loss of £100 on the chin, you will save that in transport anyhow providing thats all it will cost you. good luck.

Thanks RedSaw34, good advice, hopefully I've learnt my lesson now and will find a more suitable course.

Sorry, messed up my edit, this post was originally before previous post.

 

[david williams]

hrere is no shortage of plumbers in england,there is a glut of half to poorly trained want to be plumbers,this not a poor reflection of these people, it is proof that the people who run the plumbing industry just do not care,no matter what you belive you can not be a " master plumber" in 12 weeks as advertised,the plumbing industry great days are over,we are inundated with train fast and give us your money companies.web sites to get you work ,all they do is drive down your price,they all say they only pass 3 numbers on to the custermer butyou will never know if they passed on 100 numbers,and most do.dont look to the goverment to help,there to busy stealing off of us to care,most of the qualifications c@g bpec etc are now not worth the paper they are printed on

 

[fuzzy]

I think the message that there is no shortage of plumbers, the rates are not that high, the traning is slow and expensive, its a hard trade to learn etc etc is slowly getting out there.
Some people set their heart on it and after knowing all the draw backs still want to spend alot of money to train then good luck too them, i dont mind someone taking their time, paying their money, using a private prvider etc if thats what they want, good luck to them.
Thing is, there are people who dont understand all the above and sign up for a course that doesnt offer them what they need and its too late when they realise.
Who do we blame? the providers for trying to make money, the salesmen for trying to earn a living, the courses that are designed to enable candidates to train without an apprenticeship, the sector skillss council and C&G's for signing up 1,000s when they know they wont get jobs?
IMO- the message above needs to get out, i have NO problem with anyone learning if they know the facts, the problem is the facts ae not out there and they should be. I probably blame 'the man in the pub' who says 'get a job as a plumber and you will make a fortune', people sign up without investigating the situation and find out too late. Until the message gets to the know it all in the pub that plumbers dont make 1,000s or offer a job for life the situation wil continue.
I know a young man who was told by friends and family 'get on a plumbing course and you will NEVER be out of work' After 3 years of college and over 150 applications at local plumbing companies he has never had even 1 day of plumbing work. he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
Did everyone know that the TC's are going and soon there will be no plumb qual without a job? like it used to be? when we trained a few groups of aprentices at a time there were enough plumbers to go round, only because in the 80s it took a dive we ended up in this position, now we have overtrained, boom and bust, WILL WE EVER LEARN??????
Sorry iv mde several different points there

 

[rfvpatlttp]

[/QUOTE] he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
[/QUOTE]


NHS Jobs. Maudsley Hospital Denmark Hill London. Looking for Multiskilled Maintenance Technician (Fitter/Plumber)

Now here's the thing:

MUST HAVE C&G LEVEL 2 IN PLUMBING.

That'll be the 6129 then!


[/QUOTE]
I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.[/QUOTE]


I know some one doing the C&G course with the one in Holsworthy.

The course work content is vertually identical to that of T4TS but he has to complete all or the first set or modules before Posting everything back, that's all his test papers and course folder to London to get it marked.
Who trusts the Post Office not to lose it all?
They have no online training, no tutors to email for back up, no TMA's at the end of each section THAN CAN BE EMAILED to work through and the Bpec WRAS Water Reg's is not included in the price but can be added on for a fee.

He chose Holsworthy because it was closer to home but having seen the course material from T4TS from me he wishes he had gone with them and put up with the travel and week long stays at ATL in Southampton.

For the guy earlier looking to train near Bristol, the Apprenticeship Training Limited centre at Hedge End would be the place to do your practicals not Leeds.

BUT.... It's still your choice.

 

[fuzzy]

he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
[/QUOTE]


NHS Jobs. Maudsley Hospital Denmark Hill London. Looking for Multiskilled Maintenance Technician (Fitter/Plumber)

Now here's the thing:

MUST HAVE C&G LEVEL 2 IN PLUMBING.

That'll be the 6129 then!


[/QUOTE]
I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.[/QUOTE]


I know some one doing the C&G course with the one in Holsworthy.

The course work content is vertually identical to that of T4TS but he has to complete all or the first set or modules before Posting everything back, that's all his test papers and course folder to London to get it marked.
Who trusts the Post Office not to lose it all?
They have no online training, no tutors to email for back up, no TMA's at the end of each section THAN CAN BE EMAILED to work through and the Bpec WRAS Water Reg's is not included in the price but can be added on for a fee.

He chose Holsworthy because it was closer to home but having seen the course material from T4TS from me he wishes he had gone with them and put up with the travel and week long stays at ATL in Southampton.

For the guy earlier looking to train near Bristol, the Apprenticeship Training Limited centre at Hedge End would be the place to do your practicals not Leeds.

BUT.... It's still your choice.[/QUOTE]


How do you know they will consider a 6129 as a level2 in plumbing? The 6129 is only considered by the sector skills council for building services as a part qualification. to say its a L2 is misleading many companies who dont realise its not the full qual such as the NVQ 6089 and only find out the short comings of the candidate when its to late. As such, now many companies have realised and dont even consider the 6129 anymore. These may accept it or they may not, probably comes down to how much expereince the candidate has got when applying. if 50 apply and the interviewer knows what quals are what a new entrant with only a 6129 will be at the bottom of the pile. I have spoke to so many who have a 6129 and NEVER EVER worked in plumbing because they cannot get a job. there will always be exceptions.
Because of the problems i have written, the new quals have dropped all tech certs(6129)s nd all that wlll be available will be full NVQs although they will becalled diplomas