Train 4 Trade Skills

[simondjuk]

Well im not impressed with Train4 Trade

I completed Module 13 in late September and Id not heard anything by early January so I phoned them up to find out what was happening.

The woman on the phone said 'our system hasnt triggered so thats why you havent been put through to Practical Training' This is the third time that the 'not been triggered' escuse has been used. (First and Second were the next set of modules books)

Anyway to cut a long story short, ive now been told that the earliest Practical Training I can attend is in...May! Thats 8 months since I submitted Module 13. So basically im paying for 8 months of course that i cant progress any further on.

I think thats very unfair that their system hasnt 'triggered' but im still expected to carry on as normal.

Well, there will be a letter of complaint going to them in the next few days.

Just to add and if anyone knows, is there a Training Centre in Wakefield? - I was told there was and now im doubting that info.

 

[plumbitearth]

The training centre's are in Southampton and Leeds mate, not been to Leeds but i can say Southampton is excellent, the only problem is the travel !!!!!!

 

[andymc]

yeah the Leeds one is in Wakefield, done my first 2 weeks there, cant fault the training, surprised by how much stuff we got through, looking forward to my next 2 weeks.
I had to travel from Glasgow but got travel and accomodation money back.

 

[rfvpatlttp]

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Employment opportunities in the construction and building industry

Question.
What qualification do you need to work as a plumber in the UK?

Answer.
None!

If you want to be a plumber, get yourself a van, a bag of tools, contact your local tax office and register as a self employed person, (click the link for more information) take out a Public liability insurance policy, and you're a plumber.
The trouble is, there are a lot of cowboys out there who have done exactly that!
But you're not a cowboy, becase you've had training!

So, if you want to get plumbing work.... and assuming you have the basic practical skills after completing a year at college, there are two ways of going about it.
First way is to be an employee working for somebody. Go to the job centre - buy the local paper every day and look for plumbing jobs - ring around places looking for maintenence plumbers such as hospitals, local council, that kind of thing. DON'T TELL THEM YOU'RE A TRAINEE!! There are so many crap plumbers out there that with your training, you are an expert!!
September to May is the best time to get work in the plumbing industry.
Everything dies in the summer time - customers on holiday - nothing breaking down - it's a famine out there!! But when October comes, and the cold weather kicks in.... It's showtime!! This is especially so for the next section of this information.
The second approach is to do those things I've mentioned above about becoming a self employed plumber, then open up the yellow pages to 'Plumbers' - phone up the companies advertising there, tell them you're a plumber, and I can almost guarantee that you will soon get work - especially if you live in or around London. You will need a van of your own to do this kind of work. Plus, of course, you can do it at times to suit yourself. Just do weekends and evenings until you get the confidence to go for it full time.
That's the kind of work I did for years, and I loved every minute of it!
It's all working self employed. They get the work, which is all emergency call out repair work, you go and do it, and you split the labour charges 50/50. You might think that's a bit of a bummer if you're doing all the work while they sit in the office. But it's worth it. They will be paying a fortune in advertising, answering the telephones, dealing with the crap the customers throw up at them, and doing all the admin stuff.
Be warned though, like I said a little earlier, it's always quiet on the repair work in the summer months. Lots of sitting about in your van waiting for things to happen. And it's not a nine to five job either.. You may get called out at all hours of the day or night to deal with emergencies. The thing is with this kind of work, is that you're on your own. It's all down to you to carry out the repair with no back up! But.. and I don't want to sound cynical here. If you screw up, look upon it as good experience and learn from it.
The other good thing about this kind of work is that you can make absolute mega-bucks!

Taking a chance:

One of my students a few years ago, (David, mature student in his 50s) only did nine months of the first year at college and didn't get a qualification at that time.
What he did, was those things I mentioned above re: self employment, but instead of approaching yellow page plumbing companies he put an ad in the local paper.... When he first started I was getting a HELP ME! call off him every couple of days. Once he was up and running, he went back to college and finally did get a qualification. Now he's working his nuts off and employing people!
When you're looking to make such a massive change in your life, sometimes you have to get out there and hustle.
So there you go,​

 

[fuzzy]

All trades look to secure their respect and history of high skills by ensuring we keep up high standards and therefore the respect of clients and people paying money for the skills. Then a 'teacher' comes on here and advises people to set up as a plumber with little or no training????

'Your not a cowboy, youve been to college for a year' All those who have completed a traditional apprenticeship and/or trained for years gaining full advanced qualifications must feel so foolish🙄

We wonder why the Goverment want to bring in competent person schemes? We wonder why clients complain and plumbers get a bad name?

This is one of the reasons that there wil be NO TECH CERT 6129 NEXT ACADEMIC YEAR - Only full NVQ's (under a new name)

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Not a teacher!

Quote from a teacher and supplier of GOLA examination training software.

If you had read the article you would of noticed the first line said:-

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Though I'd put the article on here for all thoughs saying they have had no work at all since doing the course, can't find a plumbing firm to employ them, been told they will never work in the industry and want to sue for their money back.

 

[fuzzy]

Not a teacher!

Quote from a teacher and supplier of GOLA examination training software.

If you had read the article you would of noticed the first line said:-

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Though I'd put the article on here for all thoughs saying they have had no work at all since doing the course, can't find a plumbing firm to employ them, been told they will never work in the industry and want to sue for their money back.

Oh sorry i thought this was your view, didnt pick up on it all being part of a quote. It appears we agree then

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Would that be fuzzy logic then? 297 Posts and fuzzy has not made any friends yet. 😱 🙂

I think, if you can't get a plumbing firm to take you on, simply because:-

* You didn't go down the tea boy on day release at college route. In spite of the tech cert being the same theory work and portfolio content as required for nvq in both level 2 and 3.

* You funded your own studies instead of someone else getting a government grant
or financial incentive to take years to train you. (Anyone happen to know how long
the British Gas take to train their A level, 5 GCSE students at their own training center???????)

* You obtained your City&Guilds while working for a living, through dedicated home study and an industry recognised train centre, instead of a local college, with it's waiting lists, one day a week attendance, half terms, Summer and Christmas breaks, Easter holidays and all the spotty faced teenagers you can poke a stick at, that have little or no work ethic yet.

.....Then you will have to take your City&Guilds Technical Certificates level 2 and 3 in Plumbing, your portfolio of training, the Bpec WRAS water regulation Certificate, your part P acreditation your CSCS card and start advertising yourself as self employed.

* You should of started working on your own home while studying, moved on through friends and families homes, then the naighbours for extra experience in between the week long residential training session at the training centres.

* Building a website is one of the requirement of the course, I believe it comes in at section 18 but if you know how already do it anyway.

* Print some cards, flyers, put ads in the local shops and free papers, Thompson Local and yell.com.

* Because of the route you took, paying for your course, you must be working somewhere to pay for the monthly direct debits. Buy tools as you go, you will be surprised how quickly the need for a new one comes up.

* Register with the TAX, the WIAPS, IPHE, Building Regs, various competent person schemes and get that Public Liabilities Insurance mentioned by the tutor earlier. You don't want to be sued for accidently setting fire to a property with your blow lamp and end up losing you tools, your business, your house all because you were un-insured.

* Register with as many trade magazines as you can to keep up with all the latest Tech articles on solar or ground source heating and trade offers on bathroom suites, radiators, bathroom, kitchen and cloakroom taps and powerflush systems.

* While cash flow is low, get yourself trade accounts with your local branch of national suppliers; PTS, Plumbase, Plumb Center, Wickes, B&Q, Screwfix, Pulsar direct etc, etc, etc to name but a few. Pick up supplies, fit them, get paid. A month later get an invoice and pay the supplier, simple.

I'm sure, before you know it, because you put your training to good use and did a good job at every place you worked at, your plumbing jobs start coming in thick and fast and you may have to jack in that other job your doing that pays the finance for your course; if not, keep at it and plumb in the evenings and weekend only.

If your young it's an education, if your older it's an experience. Isn't that what everyone keeps telling you, you need to get on in the trade? 🙂

 

[fuzzy]

What friends? Would that be electronic ones or real ones you can see?
Errrr, youve lost me now, is this a quote or your thoughts? Bit longwinded, I got bored half way through, well first few lines if im honest. From what i gather your giving advice on how to get work when you train on Tec Certs only? Pity but that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway

 

[rfvpatlttp]

......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?

 

[fuzzy]

......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?

Thought it was pretty simple, how about this one.

THERE WILL BE NO TECHNICAL CERTIFICATES FROM JULY 2010, no worky no qualification

 

[kwakerdude911]

i will be honest here
i am still doing a course for plumbing nvq 2
that is the least employers are looking for now as i have looked on a lot of sites
6 weeks to learn thejob aint good
i have learnt the theory over 2 years in my own time and passed them
it can be done if u spend time on it and researching anything u are un sure of
the practicals will be quick but as long as u have the theory u should be ok
then go self employed
and as for gas qualifications
seems a mine filed
as i think u need to have so many hours under your belt working ofr a gas registered company
they dont tell u that -
good luck

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Cheers kwakerdude,

Been plumbing on and off since 1996. My fiancee' at that time, who ran the quality assurance and technical departments of a well known bathrooms and kitchens manufacturing company and I, attended a night school class at the local college to learn how to plumb in a kitchen before renovating and install radiators and pipework for new central heating system in own newly aquired 1930s house. The new boiler was fitted by a CORGI Gas fitter but we fitted the rest, followed by a new bathroom suite a couple months later; staff discount of cause.

As far as the theory goes, been studying City & Guilds 6129 in my own time since 2007, firstly through PlumbingSkills and ATL before the Skills Centre company director stole loans of students cash to fund his gambling habit. Then with Train 4 Trades Skills and ATL once the government, Barclays Partner Finance and T4TS stepped in, took over the blended learning courses in Plumbing and Electrics C&G and NVQ's, so everyone studying with the Cardiff based company could complete their studies and not lose out because of a corrupt <NO SWEARING> in the finance chain.

 

[WHPES]

I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

 

[fuzzy]

I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

I have come across newbies into the trade doing jobs that are beyond them only to qoute that they are learning each time. I wouldnt be impressed if somebody learnt on my job that i was paying for!
I think your advice on the principles is spot on. you need to know why not just how to! That is the difference between a tradesman and a 'mate'.

 

[WHPES]

If you come to something new to you and have no experience in it, but have background knowledge, you can get a tape measure, calculator, textbook, pen and paper and work out what's going on, what to use and how to do the task.

You can always tell my work as I use a lot of swept bends, swept tees etc in my larger circuits and avoid restrictions as much as possible. Maybe you think it's a bit OTT but all my visible nut heads and screw slots line up at the same angle. Looks neat for anyone looking. I worked with Navy guys for a while and that is where I picked up that habit as they are very particular about the appearance of finished jobs.

 

[student plumber]

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

-----------------------------------------

I agree, I'm on one of these courses and there's methods in the coursework and 3D software, but I figured there has to be more than that. I'm thinking if you have pipe and you take the outside measurement but it's 1mm wall you're accounting for water that isn't there, or an immersion heater but how much element is in there or is that all ready accounted for, or am I a bit off track there.

When I go for practical I want to try as many methods in an area as possible e.g. pipe bending, not just what's in the book. I've been working in sheet metal and microns make a lot of difference. The method for bending I cut a tube to length first then bend, I worked out how much I gained before hand, and they came out pretty much the same (not a very accurate bender) and very quickly. I always try and look deeper I would be very interested to hear more.

 

[Joanna]

Tells me ur on the team. Only 1 of about a thousand sad stories with such positivity for t4ts Ive come across. Wonder how much ur getting to sing their praises. All proffesionals warn of these expensive waste of time bull**** courses, gets no1 anywhere but in debt. GET A GRIP COZ UR NOT FOOLIN ANY 1 ESP ME!

 

[heinz57]

Whether you've got a million bits of paper that say your a genious or not dont mean dic#. All any employer will see is whether you can do the job or not, thats pretty much all they care about. If your face fits, you get along with the rest of the crew/customers then great. People worry too much about 6129 and 5817 or r2 fuc~ing d2!!!! The only bits of paper you should be worried about are gassafe, part -p and un-vented. As for trade skills, for most people there a complete rip off, waste of time. Being self employed is an absolute nightmare, especially while doing it alone, you have to be a tradesman, accountant, mechanic, business manager, lawyer, ad-man and all at the same time. When you get home from work you spend frigging hours doing paperwork, it aint easy. When you go for an interview stop flapping about your 6185 or your c3p0, tell the boss your comming to work for him for a weeks fuc#ing trial, at the end of the week when you've got the job, problem solved!!!!! Works for me.😛

 

[bobby]

i just started the course and feel it has something to offer yes its expensive but hopefully it will be money well spent i know qualifications dont mean a thing without practical experience but you have to start somewhere! i'll keep posting throughout the course with an honest opinion!so wish me luck!!!