J
jase158
Passed with flying colours, as easy as pie.
Now I look back, dont know what I was worried about.
Now I look back, dont know what I was worried about.
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
View the thread, titled "Unvented course" which is posted in Plumbing Courses on UK Plumbers Forums.
what was the actuall exam like?
I hate being tested !!
I hate being tested !!
G
Gray0689
Told you it was lol
J
jase158
You do a written exam, all answers in book, u get 3 chances to get right answer, 100 percent pass rate. Then list the components, look in the book and copy. Work out D2 sizes. Then go and look at a cylinder full of faults, it is really really hard to fail
G
Gray0689
And know you know the 9metre rule jase lol
I still have no idea what so ever what the 9 M rule is ?? I have had a look at my 2 tapes one is 5M & the other is only small being just 3M even if I use em both I can't make 9 so what is it Gray ???
G
Gray0689
Discharge pipe (D2)
This pipework runs from the tundish to the termination point.
It is supplied by the installer and must be installed correctly for both safety and design considerations.
It must be terminated in a safe place where there is no risk to persons in the vicinity of the discharge.
It must be of metal and capable of withstanding the temperature of the discharged water.
It must be at least one pipe size larger than the nominal outlet size of the safety device unless its total equivalent hydraulic resistance exceeds that of a straight pipe 9 metres long. If the total equivalent resistance length is in excess of 9 metres see sizing of D2 copper discharge pipe for common temperature relief valve out sizes on page 7.
This pipework runs from the tundish to the termination point.
It is supplied by the installer and must be installed correctly for both safety and design considerations.
It must be terminated in a safe place where there is no risk to persons in the vicinity of the discharge.
It must be of metal and capable of withstanding the temperature of the discharged water.
It must be at least one pipe size larger than the nominal outlet size of the safety device unless its total equivalent hydraulic resistance exceeds that of a straight pipe 9 metres long. If the total equivalent resistance length is in excess of 9 metres see sizing of D2 copper discharge pipe for common temperature relief valve out sizes on page 7.
My unvented was a mare. Full day course, paid upfront, no reading material but I had fitted a couple. Anyway turned up at 8.30, spent 45 mins on admin, went through a powerpoint presentation, seen the photos of one wall left in the house when it goes wrong, quick cup of tea, quick practical, 27 multiple choice questions at 11.30, back in the van and on the way home for 11.50. Didn't learn anything that wasn't already in the MI's. So slightly poorer, cost of course, diesel to get there and back, lost earnings and certification. But now(last 18 months) I can legally work on unvented cylinders. Really looking forward to my refresher in 3 1/2 years time to continue on this lucrative path. 🙂
What book is everyone referring to?
I have done a good few with solar no problems so far, maybe because I respect the fact that they can be lethal.
I hear they are bringing our regulations in line with the UK next year so it's more courses for everyone here.
I have done a good few with solar no problems so far, maybe because I respect the fact that they can be lethal.
I hear they are bringing our regulations in line with the UK next year so it's more courses for everyone here.
After such a poor experience at this training centre you of course will not be going back to them will you SimonG ? & will tell others just how poor the training was ?
Just like all other areas of life there are good & bad. Market forces should be brought to bear, you could alway complain if not to the centre themselves then to the awarding body it is not in their interest to have unsatisfied customers either.
As I have said before my local one fortunately is very good, 8.30 start 15min paperwork then power point till tea (9.45) bit after than out into the workshop looking at the different units & packages & other bits, then they had a rig that showed all the safety valves working including the Temperature relief going off, then lunch & back into the classroom going through the rest including the calculations etc. Exam started around 2'ish I think & we were out of there by 4PM.
Loss of a day's money + the cost but did learn loads, so not so bad.
I see Gray it is just the D2 pipe sizing, page 7 of what though ? & D2 over here does not now have to be a metal pipe but cant be certain types of plastic.
G
Gray0689
Didn't say it was anything different and I only said remember the 9 metre rule simple as that
G
Gray0689
I honestly don't see what there is to learn in that time there simple
OK, thanks Gray.
K
kirkgas
Change of material for D2, and now allowed to use hep2o self seal valve Dow allows connection to internal stack,I've done a few reassessment guys lately and they are moaning about having to redo the course but they don't know about the changes and have forgotten about sizing the D2 so they don't help the cause for saying reassessment isn't needed
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
G
Gray0689
I'm not saying there should not be a course but there seems to be a stigma with unvented cylinders
They are simple but correct safety is a must
They are simple but correct safety is a must
Preciously my point, thanks kirkgas (from the horses mouth as it were).
J
jase158
yeah, to be honest there was a lot that I didnt realise before that I now know.
If I hadnt done the course,I wouldnt work on unvented,
1. filter in the mixed valve (if you didnt know you would spend hours trying to work it out)
2. hepvo valve and the different ways of running the D2 pipe
i.e. they are all small things but worth a days training.
the 9 metre rule is this
the D2 pipe must be 1 size larger then the the D1 pipe.
this must be a maximum of 9 metre including all bends (see manual for bend resistance)
if it is to be larger then the sizes must be increased to allow the pressure and heat to travel
very hard to explain in basic terms
If I hadnt done the course,I wouldnt work on unvented,
1. filter in the mixed valve (if you didnt know you would spend hours trying to work it out)
2. hepvo valve and the different ways of running the D2 pipe
i.e. they are all small things but worth a days training.
the 9 metre rule is this
the D2 pipe must be 1 size larger then the the D1 pipe.
this must be a maximum of 9 metre including all bends (see manual for bend resistance)
if it is to be larger then the sizes must be increased to allow the pressure and heat to travel
very hard to explain in basic terms
why do you need to do a reassessment just because you can now use plastic pipes and hepVo valves why can't the sponging training centers send out an amendment for us to read or do they think it needs to be drummed into us, It couldn't possibly be because they want to relieve you of another £200.00 for a half day course could it:wink_smile:
M
Mike Jackson
The need for re-assessment is not down to the colleges. They are just fulfilling a role. It's a fact of modern day life that nothing can be taken on trust any more and we need to prove competency in more and more things.
There is no requirement to take the training you can just go and be assessed but I always take the training because in the intervening 5 years some things may have changed but also it is entirely possible that I may have forgotten things or not used certain aspects of it. I also find it useful to get my mind back in the way of thinking for exams as doing things correctly and being able to interpret things on paper are not always the same.
There is no requirement to take the training you can just go and be assessed but I always take the training because in the intervening 5 years some things may have changed but also it is entirely possible that I may have forgotten things or not used certain aspects of it. I also find it useful to get my mind back in the way of thinking for exams as doing things correctly and being able to interpret things on paper are not always the same.
Or could it possible be that when Part G of the building Reg's changed in 2010 (& it was publicised in the trade press) only a few silly people like me bothered to down load it (all free of charge) & read it to find out what was now required by the law ?
Of course you would now know what is required to be installed to every newly installed bath (not replacement for some reason) or what safety requirements are now required if a vented cylinder has only a 15mm open vent ? How about that it is now legal requirement that plastic cisterns be placed upon a base that extends at least 150mm bigger it.
These are just a couple of a whole raft of changes that require some explanation not just some piece of paper sent out with the likes of = D1 is now 600mm max, which clearly most engineers will not read any way, not withstanding that the visit to the training centre could be a chance to refresh your understanding of the subject.
I am in no way in favour of assessment for assessment sake but on this one it is clear that there is wholesale miss understanding when as I have said before at least 75% for all the units we visit are incorrectly installed.
Can I suggest that you attend the training (& assessment) Mark, before you pass comment on what it contains, you may just, like me learn some thing new, even if you think you are up to date.
Ive attended the training total waste of time whats the point in a course with an exam at the end that nobody fails FYI I'v also taken water regs, working at eights, Solar thermal, Solar PV heat pumps 17th edition & 2391 inspection & test so before you pass comment Chris Watkins can I suggest you take a running jump
J
jase158
working at eights??? what about working at sevens?
and all he is trying to say is that the whole point is because there is loads of things that change and even if nothing changes in 5 years, the following 5 years they might change everything and it is worth the updating even if it doesnt seem like it
and all he is trying to say is that the whole point is because there is loads of things that change and even if nothing changes in 5 years, the following 5 years they might change everything and it is worth the updating even if it doesnt seem like it
G
Gray0689
The things that have changed on unvented in last 10 years could be learnt in 10 mins
J
jase158
what is the name of the new all in one valve?
what is the minimum incoming pressure for an unvented cylinder?
what can you do if there isnt enough pressure coming in to the property?
what do you do if a component is not working and you cant get a replacement for 3 days?
what is the minimum incoming pressure for an unvented cylinder?
what can you do if there isnt enough pressure coming in to the property?
what do you do if a component is not working and you cant get a replacement for 3 days?
J
jase158
oh and probably the most important is, if you were putting a whole new system in and there was to be new electrics to the central heating in the house would you need an electrician, would you be able to do it as being part P registered or do you need the full 17th edition?
Well done mark for someone who was so vociferous in there dislike of a training course you ain't half taken a few.
Do you know, some of the worst tradesman I have met in my career are those with every qualification under the sun but an understanding of none, not suggesting for one minute that this applies to you mark.
G
Gray0689
Combination valves are not new jase
Min is about 1.5 bar but that can also be dependent on flow rate also
Depends on component jase lol
How many cylinders you fitted in your time jase
I don't dislike training courses if you'd bothered to read what I've said I dislike the courses where any numpty can attend and get a qualification. How would you know what qualifications the so called worst tradesmen have got do you ask for their cards when you meet them?
J
jase158
not being rude and if you read OP I have only just passed but I am a strong believer on reassessments. Maybe it is coming across on this forum but I am just trying to see if you know everything, there was quite a few changes (according to the college) when the new building regs came out, so there has been quite a few changes
Would be interested if you could answer just the two questions in post 56 in just your 10 mins Gray ?
but more to the point your continued suggestion that there is no need for training or assessment in this area may give the impression to those that do not have it, that there is no need to & they will start working with these systems & that can not be a good thing can it ????????????????
How many un-vent HW systems do you go out to where there are no installation faults ??
G
Gray0689
Jase no one knows everything I learn something new everyday I don't remember how many I have fitted
The things that have changed are not the safety devices just the way they can be discharged
The things that have changed are not the safety devices just the way they can be discharged
Sorry, agree with markfxy, They are all scammers out for your money. Apparently no one has ever failed a re-assesment ACS?
I've seen people walk out with a certificate that didn't have a clue. I've also done quite a few assessments and with the exception of 2391, they are all multiple choice, 4 answers with 3 chances? Come on. The only thing they test you on is your book reading abilities.
This is why they ask really obscure questions that can only be found in the book, rather than maybe a closed book paper concentrating on the stuff you really should know of the top of your head, and leaving the specific BS numbers or dates of change etc out, as let's be honest, if you need to know this, you'll look in the book.
Sorry, but you only have to look at the competence levels of the tradesmen out there to realise these courses mean naff all, Chris, your comment about 75% of installs being wrong is a good example.
I've seen people walk out with a certificate that didn't have a clue. I've also done quite a few assessments and with the exception of 2391, they are all multiple choice, 4 answers with 3 chances? Come on. The only thing they test you on is your book reading abilities.
This is why they ask really obscure questions that can only be found in the book, rather than maybe a closed book paper concentrating on the stuff you really should know of the top of your head, and leaving the specific BS numbers or dates of change etc out, as let's be honest, if you need to know this, you'll look in the book.
Sorry, but you only have to look at the competence levels of the tradesmen out there to realise these courses mean naff all, Chris, your comment about 75% of installs being wrong is a good example.
is it not post 46 chris ?
Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk
Reply to the thread, titled "Unvented course" which is posted in Plumbing Courses on Plumbers Forums.
Similar plumbing topics
We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.
