unventilated cylinder blow off

[buckley plumb]

I know I have mentioned this before but have the regs changed. Blow off from an unventilated system can go into a soil stack through a hepvo trap and pushfit pipe. But done various boiler courses at different centres and they are saying solvent weld.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I bought this up on the Facebook page , everyone had different opinions .

Have done site work where they have gone into hepvo and solvent weld and build control have never picked it up .

 

[buckley plumb]

I bought this up on the Facebook page , everyone had different opinions .

Have done site work where they have gone into hepvo and solvent weld and build control have never picked it up .

The notes I have say polypropylene. Why are things always not clear, same goes for gas safe issues they could make things a lot easier if they put in simple English not Lawyers language

 

[kozak1968]

If it was put in plain English there would be no room for common sense. The regs do like a grey area!

 

[hammers4spanner]

Well over the last year i would say i have worked on various new builds so probably totals over a 1000 properties .They all went into hepvo and solvent weld lol none have been flashed up as an issue .

 

[buckley plumb]

Well over the last year i would say i have worked on various new builds so probably totals over a 1000 properties .They all went into hepvo and solvent weld lol none have been flashed up as an issue .

Is this due to poor training in the centres not making it clear or poor info given to them. Anyone done g3 recently and willing to say what they were taught

 

[hammers4spanner]

I would say poor info

 

[hammers4spanner]

At the same time tho build control have not highlighted any issue either so maybe they are unsure .I mentioned this topic on ukpf Facebook and no one knew on that

 

[chris watkins]

When you boys say "solvent weld" which type do you mean ABS or uPVC it's only that they both have very different characteristics when subjected to high temperatures ?

 

[Best]

I did my G3 retest fairly recently (middle of last year) and it was just simply a test.
No training was given.
The regulations I could refer to in open book questions were all over the place and not together in related subjects. The point about the English used is true, as it seems deliberately vague or smart talk. Silly really, as I could have worded it in basic, simple and flowing sentences if I had to write it.
The wording is so bad, that I posed a question to the experienced examiner/engineer and he got it wrong! I thought I was wrong, but when I reread the rules I discovered his interpretations of the wording was incorrect.
No paperwork was given to me about the changes in regs, such as the D1 pipe length. Lucky I knew it, but how can you do an exam on a subject you get no training?
All it needs is one well written book on regs to be available to buy, - no training required!
Building control in my experience haven't a clue and are just happy to get the paperwork from the installer so that they can blame them if anything is later wrong. I had a chat with a building inspector and he knew nothing about it.

 

[townfanjon]

I understood it was pushfit only

 

[chris watkins]

Are you or are you not professionals ? If you wish Plumbing to be a profession and not just some form of labouring then you need to accept that a bit of reading & understanding of technical documents is required for time to time.

Below has been taken free of charge straight off this web site
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_G_2015.pdf

3.60 The discharge pipe should not be connected to a soil discharge stack unless it can be demonstrated that the soil discharge stack is capable of safely withstanding temperatures of the water discharged, in which case, it should:
a. contain a mechanical seal, not incorporating a water trap, which allows water into the branch pipe without allowing foul air from the drain to be ventilated through the tundish;
b. be a separate branch pipe with no sanitary appliances connected to it;
c. if plastic pipes are used as branch pipes carrying discharge from a safety device, they should be either polybutalene (PB) or cross- linked polyethylene (PE-X) complying with national standards such as Class S of BS 7291-2:2006 or Class S of BS 7291-3:2006 respectively; and
d. be continuously marked with a warning that no sanitary appliances should be connected to the pipe.
Notes:
1. Plastic pipes should be joined and assembled with fittings appropriate to the circumstances in which they are used as set out in BS EN ISO 1043-1:2002 Plastics. Symbols and abbreviated terms. Basic polymers and their special characteristics.
2. Where pipes cannot be connected to the stack it may be possible to route a dedicated pipe alongside or in close proximity to the discharge stack.

A simple search on the tinternet would reveal what polybutalene (PB) or PE-X are if you were unsure.

Sorry if this all sound harsh but come on!!! sick of hearing "no one told me that" go find out.

 

[Chalked]

Are you or are you not professionals ? If you wish Plumbing to be a profession and not just some form of labouring then you need to accept that a bit of reading & understanding of technical documents is required for time to time.

Below has been taken free of charge straight off this web site
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_G_2015.pdf

3.60 The discharge pipe should not be connected to a soil discharge stack unless it can be demonstrated that the soil discharge stack is capable of safely withstanding temperatures of the water discharged, in which case, it should:
a. contain a mechanical seal, not incorporating a water trap, which allows water into the branch pipe without allowing foul air from the drain to be ventilated through the tundish;
b. be a separate branch pipe with no sanitary appliances connected to it;
c. if plastic pipes are used as branch pipes carrying discharge from a safety device, they should be either polybutalene (PB) or cross- linked polyethylene (PE-X) complying with national standards such as Class S of BS 7291-2:2006 or Class S of BS 7291-3:2006 respectively; and
d. be continuously marked with a warning that no sanitary appliances should be connected to the pipe.
Notes:
1. Plastic pipes should be joined and assembled with fittings appropriate to the circumstances in which they are used as set out in BS EN ISO 1043-1:2002 Plastics. Symbols and abbreviated terms. Basic polymers and their special characteristics.
2. Where pipes cannot be connected to the stack it may be possible to route a dedicated pipe alongside or in close proximity to the discharge stack.

A simple search on the tinternet would reveal what polybutalene (PB) or PE-X are if you were unsure.

Sorry if this all sound harsh but come on!!! sick of hearing "no one told me that" go find out.

So if that's the case it contradicts itself.
They say you can go into a soil pipe, but the pipe work must be in PB or Pex no waste pipe is made of either?

 

[chris watkins]

So if that's the case it contradicts itself.
They say you can go into a soil pipe, but the pipe work must be in PB or Pex no waste pipe is made of either?

http://www.polypipe.com/cms/toolbox/Above_Below_Ground_DTIG_v5_Low_Res.pdf
Please see Page 4
Polypipe manufactures three types of plastic
waste systems with diameters as detailed
below:
Polypropylene push-fit system - outside diameters of 34.6mm, 41.0mm and 54.1 mm (EN1451-1).
ABS solvent waste system - outside diameters of 36.3mm, 43.0mm and 55.9mm (EN1455-1).
MUPVc System 2000 waste system - outside diameters of 36.3mm, 43.0mm and 55.9mm (EN1329-1 for fittings & EN1566-1 for pipe).

Hope that helps

Solvent weld (of either kind) can not be used, and yes it is a shame that the Building Control Officers or NHBC inspectors done know what they are looking at, they don't see interested either in keeping themselves up to date but that is still no excuse for the pro plumbers is it ?

 

[Millsy 82]

When I did mine last year I was told that running to a soul stack is a last resort if you can run it to outside then you should. If you run it through a hepvo then it must be fitted vertically and then into a pipe suitable for the temperature.

 

[chris watkins]

When I did mine last year I was told that running to a soul stack i

You just have to have a funky stack, get on down.

 

[AWheating]

I'd say about 80% I've seen are wrong.

As for being updated with the regs, some manufacturers still don't know you can use certain plastics. Had one last year where we phoned the technical line and they said they had never heard of plastic being suitable and we didnt know what we were talking about

 

[buckley plumb]

http://www.polypipe.com/cms/toolbox/Above_Below_Ground_DTIG_v5_Low_Res.pdf
Please see Page 4
Polypipe manufactures three types of plastic
waste systems with diameters as detailed
below:
Polypropylene push-fit system - outside diameters of 34.6mm, 41.0mm and 54.1 mm (EN1451-1).
ABS solvent waste system - outside diameters of 36.3mm, 43.0mm and 55.9mm (EN1455-1).
MUPVc System 2000 waste system - outside diameters of 36.3mm, 43.0mm and 55.9mm (EN1329-1 for fittings & EN1566-1 for pipe).

Hope that helps

Solvent weld (of either kind) can not be used, and yes it is a shame that the Building Control Officers or NHBC inspectors done know what they are looking at, they don't see interested either in keeping themselves up to date but that is still no excuse for the pro plumbers is it ?

I know it should be pushfit but why are training centres saying different.

 

[chris watkins]

I know it should be pushfit but why are training centres saying different.

I have absolutely no idea, The BEPC ones were issued guidance long before Part G was updated. View attachment soil stack .pdf This is from the training notes which were / are given to anyone attending the re-assessment course for the Part G (I have a file date of 2008 on these)

But then who bothers to attend these rip-off training course anyway, let-alone read the 9 pages of briefing notes email or posted out, you just turn up & they give you a bit of paper, don't they?

 

[AWheating]

these training centers are all the same............. i passed my acops 18 years ago and they keep trying to make me do this new fangled ACS, just after me money all the time.

 

[buckley plumb]

the potterton suprima manual used to show a 22mm speedfit elbow on the condense pipe

 

[chris watkins]

How much can of changed anyway AW, once you know it you know it !!

Any road, I do it every day & an't blown any one up yet.