Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x 3

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

air separator is not need if cold fed and expansion are like 150mm from each other , aav on open vent are good thing if pump sucks air should there be not enough head ! but customers with old ch systems that have not been looked after for 10-15years and then they decide to go for new boiler and rads some times they will have to face the bill of repiping the central heating as system is not piped sized correct in the first place + I am sure that they have double the size of the rads which will not help ! Solution is , get someone to Survey the job and pay the £1200 fee and take them to court an see , when you finish call some one to put system correct
gas pipe been 15mm will not stop your house from been toasted

Definitely agree that I should have kept the old boiler and the old pipework. It worked great and was done by a local plumber..so what if I saved £100 a year on a more efficient system.
If it was a straight agreement with T&C's to an installation company then I wouldnt hesitate, but as the Government(DECC)/EAGA/EAGAHEAT/WARMFRONT/IGUANA/CARILLION are involved, I can see potentially see the ball being kicked around for months or years and nobody taking responsibility.
At least the weather has improved!

 

[Dotty]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

You need to get an independent inspection. I doubt very much it'd cost £1,200.

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

the flue gas analysis does not need to have all other appliances running however since you have identified the problem with the cooker, this should have been checked as can also cause your cooker to not burn correctly.

Thanks Michael,

On very cold days, we had no choice but to supplement the heating with the gas fire in the living room and when using all the stoves the boiler vibrated, so we tried our best not to use them together, but didnt know that this could cause problems with buring correctly, but definitely see your point.
As a precaution and with small kids, I have always had multiple CO detectors.

 

[michael c]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

my best advice at this point would be to get someone like safe gas install out to have a look. He will hopefully be able to point you in the direction of the problem before you spend 1200 for an independant survey. These things can sometimes be so simple people simply miss them. I have attended a property before with similar issues and it was just the cold feed and expansion pipes were the wrong way round. Customer had 2 full teams inspect and not find a fault then my co-worker saw it straight away. Give safe gas a go at it

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

You need to get an independent inspection. I doubt very much it'd cost £1,200.

There are 7 registered CIPHE's in the UK. The local one was the cheapest at around £1000, others have to add in travel expenses, etc. They have to stand up in court, otherwise the Judge will throw out the case.

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

Hi Michael,

Two Gas safe engineers have had a look in the last two months and traced the very pipes. I have nobody look at it since I discovered the 15mm section of pipe just last week. Is this not by itself the cause of the all the problems, except the gas throttling issue do you think?

Thanks again

 

[michael c]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

as safegas says mate its not enough to cause the problems you have.

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

the 15 mm return is on your hw side and does not affect your central heating AT ALL , it is done as this reduces the flow of water to hot water cylinder

Sorry I misread your response and you seemed to have completely misunderstood.

The 15mm return is NOT on the hot water side, but on the central heating return. I have shown this on the video and explained that the water is done throughout in 22mm.

When the cylinder is heated the radiators get cold and the gas safe engineers all thought that that was due to sludge, but even after the powerflush and new radiators throughout it happened.
I also know that when it was working and during the regular services that the gas safe engineers seemed to think that t there was a p

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

as safegas says mate its not enough to cause the problems you have.

Unfortunately there was a misunderstanding. The 15mm constriction is on the radiator return flow, hence the floorboard removal to get to the 22mm pipe that had no reason to be upstairs until the boiler was relocated upstairs from the kitchen.

 

[Dotty]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

Stop complaining and fork out the money. You've had extensive heating works done to your house which probably cost the government in excess of £3,000.00. I understand and sympathise that the system has been poorly installed but there's little more we can suggest.

You DON'T need CIPHE! Any independent gas safe plumber is capable of submitting a report for you that will stand up in court.

Talk to your citizen's advice bureau with regards to pursuing this through the legal channels.

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

Although it looks as if I am complaining, I was hoping that this forum would help less fortunate people, vulnerable people typically not technically minded to address similar problems. I paid my fair share of 40% taxes when I used to work for faceless companies designing IT systems for 20 years, and have been using my personal savings to try and help others in my social enterprise for the past 5 years.

Citizens advice bureau suggested that I talk to solictors and as I said before they dont know who to go after and they're not cheap....The reason is that CIPHE have advised BBC watchdog and know the legal system very well.
Dont be offended as I dont think your average gas safe engineer is that legally savvy.

Please keep this thread growing as the Internet is a great way for people to comment and share their experience, but probably best limit it to your plumbing skills and experience.

 

[Dotty]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

best limit it to your plumbing skills and experience.

You'd best either explain or retract that last part, and quickly.



A report is a report is a report regardless of whom it's been written by. A GSR WILL have far more knowledge of the nuts and bolts of the system and his report will cost you far less.



IF then it is deemed necessary to go further then your solicitor will advice and commission a CIPHE report.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

He we go another engineer who asks for our advice then dont like the answers given then offend us, you dont think your average gs installer is legal savvy you say i dont think you know how a system works. If you dont like the advice stop asking for it till you get the answer you think you want.

You tell him Croppie

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

lost interest in this one already .....not a genuine one

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

You'd best either explain or retract that last part, and quickly.


A report is a report is a report regardless of whom it's been written by. A GSR WILL have far more knowledge of the nuts and bolts of the system and his report will cost you far less.



IF then it is deemed necessary to go further then your solicitor will advice and commission a CIPHE report.

I dont disagree that the GSR engineer is best placed and appreciate your straight talking.

The CIPHE however said that the judge will throw out the report as the GSR may be the eventual installer so can be biased in the report. Carillion will defend it with well funded corporate lawyers.
The CIPHE as far as I was told are not installers but the example given was in identifying the exact ancient boiler that was a cause of a fatal fire.
Unless you have written a report that was produced in court and resulted in a win case, then please share this with us and help others and I will apologise.
It is so easy to advise the legal process and this would be the path if I had the financial resources, weighing the cost of that versus the cost to rip it all out and refit properly.
This forum is for advice and spread any knowledge on plumbing and heating matters, not a legal forum.

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

He we go another engineer who asks for our advice then dont like the answers given then offend us, you dont think your average gs installer is legal savvy you say i dont think you know how a system works. If you dont like the advice stop asking for it till you get the answer you think you want.

You tell him Croppie

Croppie helped in his own way, I do respect the answers and the advice that I have been given. Leading from that advice is perhaps I will get two/three GSR's to produce a report and that way it is not seen as biased.
Please dont get upset I know of two others in the neighbourhood that have had similar problematic installs and the internet is littered with warm front problems since the airing of the BBC watchdog investigation. British Gas quoted upwards of £6,000 to put it right, but they cannot at the same time criticise in any way the existing installation. The insurance company also withheld their remarks, although the engineer was very critical of the installation.

 

[Dotty]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

Then this is where the thread ends as there is little point continuing owing to you thinking you know the answers you want from us.

You've clearly not considered caveated reports.

 

[pintvan]

Re: Warm Front botched up install. Ideal Icos broken now for 3 months - vulnerable x

Actually there is one more, can those that are GSR in the harrow area give us a quote for such a report by privately messaging me. The video shows most of the faults, and there may be more.

Thanks all.

 

[Koogatubac]

O my! Did i just see a HEPvO valve on the condensate OUTSIDE! After i saw that i got bored from the explanations which pipe is what.

OP you should be listening to croppie as he has a great deal of knowledge