What are my responsibilities?

[PPCPLUMB]

Very short version.
Im a sole trader of only 10 months, but an experieced Plumber of 30 years.
Installed a bathroom for a customer, they wanted me to source everything for them and have it delivered directly to them, which l did, once everything had been received by the customer, they then paid me for the goods.
The bath had to be inspected on delivery and refused if damaged, customer inspected and signed as all was fine.
I inspected and fitted it 5 days later.
Bath was first thing to go in, and day after installation the customer started using it, despite the bathroom not being completed until a few days later, this didnt matter to me as they had allowed the silicone to set..
This particular customer was an absolute pain right from the get go but you put that aside and act professionally regardless.
Once they had been quoted, they then started making lots of demands about the fixtures and fittings not having this, but must have that etc, annoyingly none of this was mentioned when l went out to quote...
One of the things they were adamant about, was it had to be a very good bath, because they had damaged one once and it was a nightmare to get sorted...
On to the problem.
Customer inspected the bathroom, very happy, paid in full the same day, absolutely over the moon.
2 days later, 6 days after the bath had been installed and used several times, customer gets in touch to say its cracked and the shower is faulty.....I go over the next morning, the shower isnt faulty, it was user error and the bath isnt cracked, theres a little air bubble in the bottom left corner at the tap end, around the size of a 10p.
Told her ld never seen that when fitting, they said theyd not noticed anything all week either, it was just " there" that night.
Said l would get in touch with supplier, see if we could get a replacement.
3 weeks later, supplier has said no replacement or refund as they believe the bath has been dropped (😡), lve insisted on a manufacturer report and still awaiting that.
Customer is getting increasingly pushy.
I should replace and refit for free, its my responsibility etc, theyve reported me to trading standards, endless emails..
Ive explained lm trying to still get a replacement bath, its still ongoing.
Ive also offered to refund them for the price of the bath myself plus £100 for their disappointment, but none of this is acceptable to them.
My predicament is, what if the customer has done something to the bath?
What if the supplier refuses to replace, do l have to replace and refit for free?
I charged for supply and fit, both of which l have done, and on completion inspection the customer was happy and paid!
Theres a supposed 25 year warranty on the bath, but if the supplier says its been damaged they get out of that dont they?
Any advice appreciated.
Sorry for the long post..

 

[PPCPLUMB]

I don't think it's worth answering such emails punch for punch. Whatever you have charged on the invoice for the bath is the cost of that material. Show yourself reasonable, do it right as best as you possibly can, consult a solicitor if need be as to what reasonable would be, and if they actually bother to take you to court, so be it. They can only win a court case if you have not done your legal duties (your responsibilities, as you correctly put it), not just win because they are still dissatisfied.

As for expecting cash, that is reasonable if that is how they originally paid you, but you need a receipt then. Quite what you would do with their bank details (name, sort code, and account number) apart from pay money in is beyond me. (Try going to Tesco and paying by card and then expecting a refund in cash and see how far that gets you). You don't need to justify all this. You can merely say that you will offer the refund by the same method it was paid to you as that is your policy. If that isn't good enough for them but it's an offer that is within the rules of the law (which I expect it is), then how are you being unreasonable?

You can't please some people all of the time.

Thats good advice, thankyou.
Ive offered 25% over the price of the bath, and l charge £220 a day labour only, so offered either my time free of chatge to put their new bath in, or another £250 to chose anither Plumber to fit it, l said this would only be paid via bank transfer as that is how they paid, plus it is proof they have had it.
My thoughts are they will go down the small claims route, but surely, if l can prove l offered a resolution they would not approve a much higher claim in monetary value??

 

[IND_Nick]

As covered above, sometimes you just can't win. You definitely don't need to justify the prices charged for materials, especially if they could of sourced them direct.
From what you have described above I would agree with Ric that constant emails are not the way forward. Keep a record of all communication and possibly send them a final note that you are waiting on the manufacturers to respond appropriately or your best offer would be 'X'. If it ever goes to court, the fact you are trying to find a solution goes a long way. If they chose not to accept it then that's their predicament.
Try to remember it is a business transaction and treat it as such, don't get personal or let it personally effect your normal day to day. If you've done the right thing they won't have anymore weight in court.

 

[Ric2013]

I think people often use taking people to court as a threat and too many people encourage the practice by settling out of court. If they innundate their solicitors and the court with irrelevant digressions (as it sounds they are doing with you via email), I doubt they will get very far. Not speaking from experience, mind.

 

[Ric2013]

Thats good advice, thankyou.
Ive offered 25% over the price of the bath, and l charge £220 a day labour only, so offered either my time free of chatge to put their new bath in, or another £250 to chose anither Plumber to fit it, l said this would only be paid via bank transfer as that is how they paid, plus it is proof they have had it.
My thoughts are they will go down the small claims route, but surely, if l can prove l offered a resolution they would not approve a much higher claim in monetary value??

Are you offering to source and install the replacement bath for free and refund (cost of the bath plus 25%) or you are refunding (the cost of the bath plus 25%) for them to source their own replacement bath which you will fit for free?

I can't imagine Pimlico making an offer more generous than that, so sounds reasonable either way!

 

[PPCPLUMB]

As covered above, sometimes you just can't win. You definitely don't need to justify the prices charged for materials, especially if they could of sourced them direct.
From what you have described above I would agree with Ric that constant emails are not the way forward. Keep a record of all communication and possibly send them a final note that you are waiting on the manufacturers to respond appropriately or your best offer would be 'X'. If it ever goes to court, the fact you are trying to find a solution goes a long way. If they chose not to accept it then that's their predicament.
Try to remember it is a business transaction and treat it as such, don't get personal or let it personally effect your normal day to day. If you've done the right thing they won't have anymore weight in court.

Thats exactly what l did in my last email, repeated my final offer at a resolution and would continue my fight with the supplier myself for my own benefit, and my offer to them was irrespective of the supplier refunding/replacing or not.

I feel lve been more than fair, and it just feels like this customer is out to get whatever they can because they found a tiny flaw in their bath....

 

[PPCPLUMB]

Are you offering to source and install the replacement bath for free and refund (cost of the bath plus 25%) or you are refunding (the cost of the bath plus 25%) for them to source their own replacement bath which you will fit for free?

I can't imagine Pimlico making an offer more generous than that, so sounds reasonable either way!

I have refused to source them another bath myself, because they have said they have reported me for breach of GDPR because l gave the suppliers their contact details as they needed them to deliver the bathroom....🙈
I said if l gave them back the price of the bath, plus an extra 25% they could source a bath of their choice and l wouldnt have to give anyone their contact details...
They really are pulling out all the stops..
And yes, on top, l would fit it for free, or give them another £250 to pay someone of their choice to fit it..

 

[Ric2013]

Dear Mr Judge,

My plumber fitted my bathroom. There was a flaw in the bath. The plumber offered to give me a replacement bath and fit it for free and offer me a discount due to the time wasted. At no time did I state that time was 'of the essence' (e.g. that the works had to be complete before my disabled uncle came to live with us). But I feel I deserve more.

Plus the plumber gave my address to a supplier that needed that information in order to deliver the goods I had agreed to order and I feel this breaches the GDPR rules of which I haven't read the 88 pages of PDF but I read something about it in the "Daily Mail" and quoting it makes me sound important. [To be fair, possibly there should be a document customers have to sign to ensure you can do that, but I'm sure 99% of plumbers won't have this document].

Today I am wearing my birthday badge:

 

[PPCPLUMB]

Dear Mr Judge,

My plumber fitted my bathroom. There was a flaw in the bath. The plumber offered to give me a replacement bath and fit it for free and offer me a discount due to the time wasted. At no time did I state that time was 'of the essence' (e.g. that the works had to be complete before my disabled uncle came to live with us). But I feel I deserve more.

Plus the plumber gave my address to a supplier that needed that information in order to deliver the goods I had agreed to order and I feel this breaches the GDPR rules of which I haven't read the 88 pages of PDF but I read something about it in the "Daily Mail" and quoting it makes me sound important. [To be fair, possibly there should be a document customers have to sign to ensure you can do that, but I'm sure 99% of plumbers won't have this document].

Today I am wearing my birthday badge:View attachment 75661

I like that. 😂
And actually, theres a clause regarding gdpr and whether you are in breach, if its justifiable and with good cause ( as in so a delivery company can deliver goods to a customer ) there is no breach...

Dear Mr Judge,

My plumber fitted my bathroom. There was a flaw in the bath. The plumber offered to give me a replacement bath and fit it for free and offer me a discount due to the time wasted. At no time did I state that time was 'of the essence' (e.g. that the works had to be complete before my disabled uncle came to live with us). But I feel I deserve more.

Plus the plumber gave my address to a supplier that needed that information in order to deliver the goods I had agreed to order and I feel this breaches the GDPR rules of which I haven't read the 88 pages of PDF but I read something about it in the "Daily Mail" and quoting it makes me sound important. [To be fair, possibly there should be a document customers have to sign to ensure you can do that, but I'm sure 99% of plumbers won't have this document].

Today I am wearing my birthday badge:View attachment 75661

 

[ShaunCorbs]

And l can request that through trading standards?
And in the meantime, do l have to reply to every email they send? Its nearly daily....

Yes or ask there advise and make sure you log when you phoned etc

 

[Chuck]

My thoughts are they will go down the small claims route, but surely, if l can prove l offered a resolution they would not approve a much higher claim in monetary value??

IME, Small Claims Court judges don't look kindly on claimants who've declined a reasonable settlement offer and are trying to use the procedure to bully the other party.